Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2022, 07:43 AM   #11
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I also doubt that running blades, USB ports, or a
designer art skins cause psychosis.
The good old Cyberpunk manuals had some pretty extensive tables of cyberware and some had very low (or even 0) effect on humanity, of course adding an exoskeleton and 2 more arms and replacing the eyes with a multispectral visor and wiring for ATR, was something else.

And as someone pointed out, there was also the option of regaining humanity in some cases.
Aldric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2022, 07:58 AM   #12
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesendeja View Post
This is a perfect example of the chicken and egg paradox, and why I've always found humanity hard to do.
This is why it's generally better to use a Humanity cost to do stuff like this, rather than having a maximum Humanity allowable to be able to do it. Of course, if you're willing to setup a fairly long hierarchy of Bad Wrong Things, with MaxHum and HumCost (with HumCost dropping the lower the character's Hum - eventually, you're evil enough that just kicking puppies doesn't make you any more of a monster, and you've got to start drowning them), and/or have good roleplayers in your group, it could still work, creating a believable narrative of a character's descent into inhumanity, as evidenced both by behavior and by their having cast off literal parts of themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I also doubt that running blades, USB ports, or a designer art skins cause psychosis.
Yeah, augmentations that don't affect brain chemistry somehow making one psychologically less human is probably nonsense, but then so are a lot of things in game settings. Now, there may be debate over what makes one "human" in a setting, and one can suffer psychological issues from knowing, for example, one's liver is no longer what one was born with (of course, transplants IRL can cause some psychological effects), but the idea that having bits replaced somehow makes you less human psychologically? Meh.

But it's a central theme for some stories, so some handling of it is worthwhile.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2022, 08:30 AM   #13
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
the idea that having bits replaced somehow makes you less human psychologically? Meh.
The proceedure I would find effective would be to say " My character concept is an ex-speclal forces cyborg whose life experinces and modifications have given him Callous, Low Empathy, Killjoy and Social Stigma:Extreme Cyberware-3."

Note that the character is effectively getting more cp than the collective value of those Disads. This is because he's punting on all social interactions except possibly Intimidation and he's saving all the points he would have spent on those things too.

It doesn't matter ruleswise "why" the character is an ice cold killing machine but that's the way the player made him.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2022, 08:44 AM   #14
Kesendeja
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

I think I'm going to ditch humanity loss as a hard rule. There are really too many variables to make it work effectively. Just let people decide for themselves if they adjusted well or not to their 'ware.
__________________
My GURPS Blog: https://omniversalmess.blogspot.com/
Kesendeja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2022, 09:26 AM   #15
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The proceedure I would find effective would be to say " My character concept is an ex-speclal forces cyborg whose life experinces and modifications have given him Callous, Low Empathy, Killjoy and Social Stigma:Extreme Cyberware-3." (emphasis added)
That would likely be the big effect. Getting extreme cyberware might make you ostracized, which could make you bitter ("If I cannot inspire love, I will cause fear."). If you did so willingly, it's likely that you were already well outside societal norms.
__________________
RyanW
- Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2022, 09:49 AM   #16
Opellulo
 
Opellulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rome, Italy
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

IMHO you are using the wrong mindset in considering the concept of humanity in Cyberpunk.
Cyberware is not prostetics or replacement, it's "upgrade" (Chrome is better than flesh) the core idea is that you HAVE to install Cyberware because otherwise the World will leave you in the dust.
Sure you may have a limb or two missing in action but would you replace them with cheap squishy bodybank parts, or will you use the chance to get back in the sprawl with new shining surprises for the punks that sent you to the ripperjack?

Healthcare is hell in a Cyberpunk World, probably you "didn't ask for this" but corpos wrote that in fine prints in the contract so now you have new army surplus cyberarms and a six figure medical bill to repay, what will you do?

Humanity in Cyberpunk 2020 is the will to stick it to the Man, oppose the anarcho-capitalist grind and its expectation about your role in the cog. It works like the "light side" of the force: it's harder, longer, more painful, but it's the only "right" way.
__________________
“A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?”

Last edited by Opellulo; 03-28-2022 at 11:08 AM.
Opellulo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2022, 11:59 AM   #17
AllenOwen
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Thomaston, GA
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

This might interest you:

https://www.ravensnpennies.com/gurps...ic-distortion/
AllenOwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2022, 03:17 AM   #18
The Colonel
 
The Colonel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I assume you're referring here to Adam Jensen, the protagonist of the Deus Ex prequels. But that does suggest an interesting way of handling things. To voluntarily get your bits replaced, you need to have already lost some degree of Humanity... and having your bits replaced without your consent (as happened to Jensen) can cause you to slowly lose Humanity.

Of course, practically, I feel this wouldn't really work as a game mechanic, due to creating perverse incentives - "I'm only 5 puppy-kicks away from losing enough Humanity to be able to put some Mantis Blades in my character's arms!"
I did indeed mean Adam Jensen - and would contrast him with say, Gunther Herman and Anna Navarre ... they, as I understand it, were at least semi-voluntary rebuilds and none too stable before that, as were many of the more psychotic NPCs in the series. Of course, given the nature of the Deus Ex world, being rebuilt seems to be one big job, followed by tinkering. Herman, certainly, is an interesting contrast, between his endless quest for more lethality (such as as his requests for a "Skul gun"), his hyperchondria about his systems being at less that 100% functionality and his slowly building regret ... "vot about my legs? vot about my life?".

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It's also kind of absurd to think that when grandma gets her hip replaced she can become a soulless killer.

Also amputees who receive effective prosthetics usually get improved mental health than the converse.
This what I mean about cutting up healthy flesh - to have something defective fixed is fairly normative for a human, although there's still scope for a sense of alienation, phantom limb problems and what have you. It's removing something that works that smacks of dysmorphia...
The Colonel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2022, 08:35 AM   #19
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
I

to have something defective fixed is fairly normative for a human, although there's still scope for a sense of alienation, phantom limb problems and what have you.
You need to have a scale that's beyond "fairly normative" and with little scop

I had the cataract-filled lenses of my eyes removed and replaced with synthetic lenses. The surgical proceedure is truly trivial. You can walk out of the horpital less than 3 hours after you go in and most of that time was either waiting for the surgery or waking up after it.

The only downside was that there was excess glue under my eyelid which caused some irritation and a little blurring for the rest of that day. I wake up the next morning and 30 years had been taken off my eyes.

You're going to need a category of trivially difficult and invasive proceedures with basically no downsides and with futuristic technology that list could be even broader than it is today.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2022, 10:00 AM   #20
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Please Help: Cyberpunk Style Humanity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesendeja View Post
Using the Fifth Attribute for Quintessence to represent the soul.

You would average IQ and QN then multiply by 5. Each piece has a cost for humanity associated with it and for every 5 points you have, you earn that amount in disadvantages representing your alienation from humanity.

This can be bought off in game with CP and actively trying to reconnect to your humanity.
I know, you've already ditched the idea, but this is one of those examples of importing a foreign game mechanic when GURPs already had a native mechanic available to perform the same function. There would be no difference between spending points to buy off lowered "humanity" and just spending points to get the cyberware itself. And if you go into point debt...you acquire Disadvantages, right?
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cyberpunk, humanity, quintessence

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.