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Old 09-08-2021, 07:37 PM   #11
Pursuivant
 
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

GURPS 3E Cyberpunk hasn't aged well, both in its technological assumptions and GURPS game mechanics.

Most of the "crunchy bits" of GURPS 3E Cyberpunk, Cyberworld, etc. have been ported over to 4E books like Biotech and Ultratech. High Tech, Martial Arts, and Space might also have useful material.

The one exception is net-running, which can be handled in other ways.
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Old 09-08-2021, 08:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
I would consider Cyberpunk for the background material but wouldnt use the rules or gear as written. I prefer the Cyberpunk Pyramid article as well, Console Cowboys works much better for Netrunning IMO.
Also consider besides Ultra Tech the High Tech Electricity and Electronics.
The one issue I have with the BAD rules in Console Cowboys is that there are no real guidelines for assigning BAD to the complexity of any given computer.

Is it legit to assign a BAD value of 10 to a microcomputer? What should the limit be for BAD with respect to the various types of computers?

What is the upper limit for BAD based upon the complexity program that is the ICE software?

It was questions like that which had me wishing for a better defined system. Both "systems" for netrunning have their issues and strengths.
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

For a setting, you should find any of the Interface Zero setting books (for savage worlds). That setting is more fun IMHO than the R. Talisorian setting. It also has a little better consistency (I really don't think "The Mob" is going to feature in any significant event of the 21st century...).

The Pyramid Issue 3-21 Cyberpunk is a must have. Console Cowboys and Cyberspace Kung Fu is an excellent approach to net running.
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Old 09-08-2021, 11:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

The book is very comprehensive, I was in love with it for a long time. Yes some other Ultra-* books overlap and the genre is not shadowrun inclusive.

But the system theme and the cyber-* variants are there; again its comprehensive.

I have some great memories of having my programs grow old and lose their potency, what a genius and cruel mechanic.
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Old 09-09-2021, 07:53 AM   #15
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
I'm torn on this one. GURPS Cyberpunk was an excellent book in its time, with some historical interest to boot. However, I'm not sure it's aged well.
IMHO even by 1990 standards it was kind of out of date...especially in light of The Cuckoo's Egg (1988). Computer technology was moving too freaking fast and it hasn't slowed down. Just look at the sea change from x86 to ARM that seems to be happening...largely due to and Apple's M1 SoC which in terms of power/watt is just insane.

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Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company View Post
It's worth a look (and for eight bucks, it's not like it's going to break the bank), but you may be better off with the Pyramid cyberpunk issue.
I agree. GURPS Cyberpunk's equipment looked slightly "primitive" even by 1990 standards and looks more like museum pieces by 2021 standards than anything we will actually see in a cyperpunk world.

It also gave us one of the most awkward and somewhat illogical disadvantages in GURPS: Non-Iconographic .

As Extra Credit showed in William Gibson: The Gernsback Continuum there is nothing intrinsic about "tree" to connect it to what it describes. In fact, other languages use a totally different spelling for what is "tree" in English, such as árbol in Spanish.

More over identification of an Iconographic is a cultural rather then mental thing. For example a person person of 1880 would have no idea what looks like three megaphones centered around a circle means but many modern people would identify it as meaning "radiation".

Here is an Iconographic's description: a circle with three arrows pointing inwards forming a "Y" like shape. And no it is not the SCP Foundation logo but what that logo was likely derived from.

Have no idea? It is the old Electrostatic Sensitive Devices symbol which has been replaced by the reaching hand in a triangle with a line through it.
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Old 09-09-2021, 04:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Just look at the sea change from x86 to ARM that seems to be happening...largely due to Apple's M1 SoC which in terms of power/watt is just insane.
Um . . . what difference would this make for game purposes? It extends battery lives for portable devices, which I strongly doubt any GMs track in detail, and forms another step in machines getting faster.

Software that could not be built for ARM was already obsolete; this just makes it a bit more obvious.

Note: I do software porting for a living, and have ported the same product to four old-time 64-bit RISC systems, three x84-64 operating systems and four ARM64 operating systems, with a fifth starting up. This is reasonably routine work these days.
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Old 09-10-2021, 12:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: GURPS 3rd Ed Cyberpunk! Yeah? Nah?

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Um . . . what difference would this make for game purposes? It extends battery lives for portable devices, which I strongly doubt any GMs track in detail, and forms another step in machines getting faster.
Faster CPU faster use of options outlined in The Cuckoo's Egg.

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Software that could not be built for ARM was already obsolete; this just makes it a bit more obvious.
I don't know if "obsolete" is the proper term as ARM saw the light of day back in 1985 the same year x86 got a 32-bit expansion. There was a lot of software that would appear for x86 that didn't get ported to either ARM or 68x (Mac). Heck, outside of the UK the only Arm anyone was likely familiar with was Arm and Hammer ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Note: I do software porting for a living, and have ported the same product to four old-time 64-bit RISC systems, three x84-64 operating systems and four ARM64 operating systems, with a fifth starting up. This is reasonably routine work these days.
Key phrase where is "work these days". Remember we are dealing with a book that came out in 1990 - software porting was somewhat rare back then as many programmers were using assembly to squeeze as much performance as possible out of the computers of the time.

Given that real world companies seemed to have gone whole hog with the sunk cost fallacy and continue to use code long past its use by date because they won't (or worst can't) upgrade their hardware that software porting may not be a viable option.

This is why many ATMs were using Windows XP clear up to 2018 or people want ti know, in 2021, how to run 16-bit code on Windows 10
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