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Old 12-30-2018, 01:42 PM   #1
hcobb
 
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Location: Pacheco, California
Default Ignore engagement

A figure not in HTH combat can declare that he is ignoring engagement at the start of his movement and move freely.

Before each hex of that figure's movement any hostile figure can take their action for that round as a melee or ranged attack at that point during movement against the free mover. They treat the mover's front hexes as side hexes and his side hexes as rear hexes for this attack. (Note that the mover's shield (if any) has no effect.)

Note that a free mover would still get his pole weapon charge before his target could reply with a shorter weapon, but other hostiles along the way could have struck the free mover before he made that final step up.
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Old 12-30-2018, 04:08 PM   #2
Helborn
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

This changes the game into something unrecognizable. Characters can move by others and combat becomes part of movement. There are a lot of wargames that use this mechanic and it can be a fun game but it breaks the flow. Especially if you keep the pole weapons first rule
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:34 PM   #3
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

I think TFT without engagement (or modified along the lines you suggest) is a really interesting idea, and results in something more realistic (or at least with more 'versimilitude'), particularly when combined with a wider variation of ranges for melee weapons. The result is something obviously very different from core TFT, but definitely worth exploring with some play testing
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:50 AM   #4
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

GURPS does a really good job of combat without engagement, which I prefer, but it is a different game, and works because figures move about 1/2 what they do in TFT, it costs more to turn, most attacks only let you move 1 hex, the movement and action is done together and without having an entire side get to move all their figures at once, etc.

I think there is a need for a house rule to ignore engagement when otherwise it means people are rooted in place when they convincingly would/should not be standing there.

The details of this suggestion are interesting but not quite what I'd choose - I don't much care for the facing transformation and useless shields.
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:59 AM   #5
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
GURPS does a really good job of combat without engagement, which I prefer, but it is a different game, and works because figures move about 1/2 what they do in TFT, it costs more to turn, most attacks only let you move 1 hex, the movement and action is done together and without having an entire side get to move all their figures at once, etc.

I think there is a need for a house rule to ignore engagement when otherwise it means people are rooted in place when they convincingly would/should not be standing there.

The details of this suggestion are interesting but not quite what I'd choose - I don't much care for the facing transformation and useless shields.
Engagement is one of the key features of TFT tactical combat so I wouldn't want to do away with it completely. However, some have mentioned a very gamey tactic of using figures with the Defend option to pin enemies in place. One could logically argue that if you're Defending then you're not Engaging. So it might be worth considering a ruling that Defending figures do not Engage.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
The details of this suggestion are interesting but not quite what I'd choose - I don't much care for the facing transformation and useless shields.
I'm modeling turning your back and walking away from somebody who isn't a perceived threat.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:46 PM   #7
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I'm modeling turning your back and walking away from somebody who isn't a perceived threat.
Yes, and it's an interesting and I think not bad way of doing it. I think I prefer it to other methods I've seen where the ignored person gets given an extra free attack in addition to their attack for the turn (some people have even given a free auto-hit), I'm just saying I'd tend to do it differently, FWIW.

i.e. I have used a few versions of this, usually based on my long-memorized knowledge of how it works in GURPS, where I note the facing as the ignoring figure moves, and apply that facing modifier. Last time I took the time to describe that system on these forums, though, it wasn't well received by people who didn't know/like GURPS, which is understandable.

IME, the main issue I have had in play with house rules for ignoring engagement, is not accidentally creating a tactic where people can use it to do run-around attacks too easily.

Giving the ignored person a reaction move/shift can help.
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:54 PM   #8
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Engagement is one of the key features of TFT tactical combat so I wouldn't want to do away with it completely. However, some have mentioned a very gamey tactic of using figures with the Defend option to pin enemies in place. One could logically argue that if you're Defending then you're not Engaging. So it might be worth considering a ruling that Defending figures do not Engage.
Yes. There are a few other problematic conditions:

* Fliers stopping flight in mid-air due to engagement.

* Panicked runaway horse or bull running full speed somehow stopped because engaged by two people.

* You can't flee the impending troll army (or step away from a rolling boulder or lava or whatever) because a hobgoblin is threatening you with a stick.

* You are in very heavy armor and have to stay next to opponents who you're sure are very unlikely to hurt you if they hit you. (The rules actually call this out in the "knight in armor is not engaged by a teenage girl" line, but it's not defined where the line is. Also it seems clear in an RPG that a person could keep moving, but there would be consequences - well what are the consequences?)

* You're sure it's an image you're facing, and try pretending it isn't there are walk forward.

* You're a 7-hex dragon with three hobgoblins or wolves or something engaging you somehow making it impossible for you to move except to push into them one hex.
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:00 PM   #9
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Yes. There are a few other problematic conditions:

* Fliers stopping flight in mid-air due to engagement.

* Panicked runaway horse or bull running full speed somehow stopped because engaged by two people.

* You can't flee the impending troll army (or step away from a rolling boulder or lava or whatever) because a hobgoblin is threatening you with a stick.

* You are in very heavy armor and have to stay next to opponents who you're sure are very unlikely to hurt you if they hit you. (The rules actually call this out in the "knight in armor is not engaged by a teenage girl" line, but it's not defined where the line is. Also it seems clear in an RPG that a person could keep moving, but there would be consequences - well what are the consequences?)

* You're sure it's an image you're facing, and try pretending it isn't there are walk forward.

* You're a 7-hex dragon with three hobgoblins or wolves or something engaging you somehow making it impossible for you to move except to push into them one hex.
That gives me an idea. I think it would be reasonable to allow a figure to ignore engagement as long as the engaging figure is allowed an "auto-hit" before the figure leaves engagement. That means you can largely ignore weak foes, although still at some risk, which seems more realistic.
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Old 12-31-2018, 02:07 PM   #10
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Ignore engagement

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
That gives me an idea. I think it would be reasonable to allow a figure to ignore engagement as long as the engaging figure is allowed an "auto-hit" before the figure leaves engagement. That means you can largely ignore weak foes, although still at some risk, which seems more realistic.
That's one of several options for essentially the same proposal which people have used as house-rules over the years.

Most people who do it have agreed it makes sense that ignoring engagement should allow the ignored person a chance to attack the ignorer, but the details of how people handle it have varied, e.g.:

* a max-damage auto-hit
* an auto-hit
* a free attack at some advantage
* a free attack with no advantage
* a chance to use their normal attack out of sequence at some advantage
* a chance to use their normal attack out of sequence
* and/or an extra Shift (or full move) to react to the ignorer's movement

I tend to agree with hcobb in general that I tend to give:
* a chance to use their normal attack out of sequence at some advantage (+2 DX but not necessarily no shield protection) and an extra Shift (or full move) to react to the ignorer's movement.
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