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Old 09-10-2016, 05:10 PM   #91
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
yes, that was my point. I realize why they are priced how they are, but they still feel cheap for the gain.
There is a possibility of a fantasy game starting soon, and I definitively will offer Incantation magic as a possibility, but I will have to watch this closely, knowing the players.
You do realize the GM has full control over power-ups, right? The GM can fully say "No, you can't have this. You need to find a teacher."

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
For 20 points of powerup (adept and field caster) , you get the ability to throw spells every 5 seconds (every seconds at -6)...
With just those 2 powerup added, an otherwise starting Incanter with incantation gift 6 and 5 level of a specific rote invocation can do 6D of direct damage at 50 yards every second at effective skill 16, and do so for hours, baring crit fail. (unless I missed something ?)
And he is not a one trick character by any means !
Again, see above.

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
I haven't yet looked at sorcery closely, how does it compare ?
Sorcery is different, but since it's powers-based ith as it's own pitfalls to contend with.

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
That said, I am very impressed at how the dependencies between the various spell casting limitation (incantation gift cap, time spent, skill ...) keep the system flexible and fast playing without crippling or unbalancing the incanter.
Thanks. Like Toni said - I slaved for MONTHS making sure everything was just right.

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
On the Sages thing, it's not just MH's Sages. An Artificer/Incanter could be kept thematic by limiting him to Infusions, and an Incanter/Scholar who's limited to Scripts would be a nice way to describe a DF Scribe.
That's possible.

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I haven't gotten much further in reading than the last time I posted (darn RL and it's interruptions); but I'll get back to it as soon as I can.
Curse you, Real Life(TM) and your sudden but inevitable interference.

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
I had a chance to finish reading the final PDF while I was offline being sick last night, and it looks very good :) I have no bias whatsoever about this subject (*cough cough blatant lies*)
Liar. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Seriously, I've watched this develop from early in the process, and I love me the final product.
Thanks. You're one of the few people who's been there from start to finish other than the authors.

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
All done! :)
Cool.

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
One concern about Infusions and Scripts: because you roll against the higher of Alchemy/Symbol Drawing and the Path skill, doesn't that effectively render Path skills effectively moot for someone who chooses to rely exclusively on Alchemy (Infusions) and/or Symbol Drawing (Scripts)? Put the minimum amount into Ritual Magic (Incantations) to qualify as the Path prerequisite, then operate the Paths off of their default and concentrate everything else into Alchemy (Infusions) if you intend to be an alchemist or Symbol Drawing (Scripts) if you intend to be a Scribe.
It can, yes. But it's balanced by the fact that's it's external, requires components to make, and can be taken away from you. That's huge. It also causes a higher skill penalty, but that's neither here nor there. IT also takes extra time. So sure, you can totally be a script-master and awesome caster...then you're hosed if someone takes them or you don't make enough on your delve or any other number of problems.

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I'd be much more comfortable if the rules said that you roll against the lower of Alchemy (Infusions) and Path for creating infusions, and the lower of Symbol Drawing (Scripts) and Path for creating scripts. As an aside, it would make adjusting the rules for pure Mixologists or Scribes much easier: just replace Ritual Magic (Incantations) with either Alchemy (Infusions) or Symbol Drawing (Scripts) as the core skill off of which the Paths are based, and keep the Prepared Magic stuff unchanged.
Sure, I can see that as a house rule. But we choose to write the rules as we did for the reasons I outlined above.

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Originally Posted by Pseudonym View Post
I made this comparison of RPM and Incantations today to better highlight the differences and drive home that they are similar but definitely different.
Thanks, Benjamin! I really appreciate all the reveiwing you've done on this so far. :-)
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:16 PM   #92
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

I tried to learn gurps in the past, but it took reading dungeon fantasy and then forced retroactively to check parts of the 2 basic books. That happened over the past 3 weeks so its weird that the df rpg box and df 19 based on ritual path magic have just been released. I feel I chose a good time to dip my finger in gurps.

In any case this seems very well put together and unlike rpm it only needs one roll to cast a spell, certainly right on the money for df.

A weird question: Playing around the mesmerism Path I build a spell that grants Indominable and +2 bonus to Will. Regrading the Will part does that affect the Will-based Ritual Magic roll to avoid loosing your incantations? I would say no since magic cannot help magic.
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:38 PM   #93
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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Originally Posted by Malfi View Post
I tried to learn gurps in the past, but it took reading dungeon fantasy and then forced retroactively to check parts of the 2 basic books. That happened over the past 3 weeks so its weird that the df rpg box and df 19 based on ritual path magic have just been released. I feel I chose a good time to dip my finger in gurps.

In any case this seems very well put together and unlike rpm it only needs one roll to cast a spell, certainly right on the money for df.

A weird question: Playing around the mesmerism Path I build a spell that grants Indominable and +2 bonus to Will. Regrading the Will part does that affect the Will-based Ritual Magic roll to avoid loosing your incantations? I would say no since magic cannot help magic.
welcome to GURPS! And yes the magic can not help magic rule says no to that Ritual helping Ritual Magic.
Otherwise you can have a spiral of increasing power way way too easy compared to other professions.
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Old 09-10-2016, 07:03 PM   #94
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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Originally Posted by Malfi View Post
I tried to learn gurps in the past, but it took reading dungeon fantasy and then forced retroactively to check parts of the 2 basic books. That happened over the past 3 weeks so its weird that the df rpg box and df 19 based on ritual path magic have just been released. I feel I chose a good time to dip my finger in gurps.
You really did. And if you need any help whatsoever post here, hit me up on twitter, etc. Someone will help you and I do my best by new users of the system.

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Originally Posted by Malfi View Post
In any case this seems very well put together and unlike rpm it only needs one roll to cast a spell, certainly right on the money for df.
That was one of the goals right from the beginning. Glad that it's apparent to even new users of the system.

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Originally Posted by Malfi View Post
A weird question: Playing around the mesmerism Path I build a spell that grants Indominable and +2 bonus to Will. Regrading the Will part does that affect the Will-based Ritual Magic roll to avoid loosing your incantations? I would say no since magic cannot help magic.
No, it does not and for the reasons you note. :-)
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:54 PM   #95
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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You do realize the GM has full control over power-ups, right? The GM can fully say "No, you can't have this. You need to find a teacher."
Oh I am the GM and at first glance those powerup are off the table until I can run some playtest ... maybe in practice it won't matter.

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Thanks. Like Toni said - I slaved for MONTHS making sure everything was just right.
It shows.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:26 AM   #96
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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Oh I am the GM and at first glance those powerup are off the table until I can run some playtest ... maybe in practice it won't matter.
It really depends on your PCs. I have out of the box thinkers all around so I'd likely say "No" or "Pay a 40 point UB for each one" 100 points allows a lot of unfairness.


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It shows.
Thank you. I was truly hoping it would. I worked hard and so did Toni.
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:11 AM   #97
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

I posted a longish review on my blog. The short version: a thoroughly successful attempt that brings a streamlined, but fully thought-out and very genre-appropriate version of Ritual Path Magic to Dungeon Fantasy. It will even be of use for folks who wanted to use RPM in other genres, but didn't find it hard-and-fast enough, when it comes to statting all effects and modifiers.

Congratulations on a very impressive debut book for Messrs. Rice and Monrós!
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:19 AM   #98
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

I've picked it up but I am deliberately not reading it until I have cleaned my plate of other things, because all of the reviews and comments are telling me that I am going to want to spend the subsequent 2 weeks attaching hooks, buttons and velcro to the system for use in my fantasy foundation project. I am insanely excited.

MUST NOT LOOK. MUST NOT LOOK.
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Old 09-11-2016, 03:35 PM   #99
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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Originally Posted by Blind Mapmaker View Post
I posted a longish review on my blog. The short version: a thoroughly successful attempt that brings a streamlined, but fully thought-out and very genre-appropriate version of Ritual Path Magic to Dungeon Fantasy. It will even be of use for folks who wanted to use RPM in other genres, but didn't find it hard-and-fast enough, when it comes to statting all effects and modifiers.

Congratulations on a very impressive debut book for Messrs. Rice and Monrós!
Thanks for the honest review! We did our best.
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I've picked it up but I am deliberately not reading it until I have cleaned my plate of other things, because all of the reviews and comments are telling me that I am going to want to spend the subsequent 2 weeks attaching hooks, buttons and velcro to the system for use in my fantasy foundation project. I am insanely excited.

MUST NOT LOOK. MUST NOT LOOK.
Read it, you want to, you know it ;)
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Old 09-11-2016, 03:39 PM   #100
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Default Re: GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic

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Oh I am the GM and at first glance those powerup are off the table until I can run some playtest ... maybe in practice it won't matter.
Actually, we kept them mostly because we knew people would want them. Not needing a circle more often than not just gives you a slight bonus to your roll, since a quick and dirty circle will just impose a modest penalty. Reducing casting time from minutes to seconds will won't let you do much until your paths are sky high and you can absorb the penalty for 1 second castings AND you can also absorb the penalty for the regular casting. You're still casting WAY weaker spells than what you could have in a slot.
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