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Old 03-03-2021, 11:13 AM   #5421
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Unless the point is a perpetual motion machine.
It generally is for these sorts of things - though sometimes it's Death Rays thanks to Tesla's sense of humor/delusions/con artistry.

One of the problems I have here is this seed is this is somehow supposed to have encouraged science education, when science has been pretty clear about for half a century even at this point in history is that extracting useful energy from atmospheric electricity is pretty much impossible. Some optimists might argue about thunderstorms but even then it'd be from the convection, not the electrical effects. So the fact that it worked seems to be more an incentive to doubt science than encourage it. Not that the *real* Second World War doesn't have lots and lots and lots of evidence that science and engineering are extremely important.
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Old 03-03-2021, 11:51 AM   #5422
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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
Thatís functionally a perpetual motion machine. Even if it somehow gets around questions of conservation laws and thermodynamics, perpetual motion technology has Consequences.
Though interestingly this particular justification for free energy actually fails to give you some of the flashier applications. It's useless for space flight (and hence the ever dreaded relativistic impactors), or for life support in places like space, underwater or tunnelling to the center of the earth. As an engine drawing on a resource with a finite density it doesn't even lend itself well to bombs or applications that require enormous energy densities.

If you want cosmic power that doesn't have consequences that should quickly twist the world into something utterly unrecognizable, that's a nice start.
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:07 PM   #5423
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
One of the problems I have here is this seed is this is somehow supposed to have encouraged science education, when science has been pretty clear about for half a century even at this point in history is that extracting useful energy from atmospheric electricity is pretty much impossible. Some optimists might argue about thunderstorms but even then it'd be from the convection, not the electrical effects. So the fact that it worked seems to be more an incentive to doubt science than encourage it. Not that the *real* Second World War doesn't have lots and lots and lots of evidence that science and engineering are extremely important.
I think this is a Gernsbach type Worldline so a suspension of belief is necessary, I'd position it as an amplifier so a small electric motors required to start up which is then amplified by the gathering of static electricity instead of unlimited perpetual motion.

If the US made more rapid territorial gains in the Pacific Theatre and Europe due to Air Engines, say the Air Engine countered the ME 206 or put the equivalent of a P57 Mustang in every theatre then changed the course of Indo-China I can see how the administration would push science education.

The point around Centrums valid they'd happily stand back if there was a nuclear exchange but they wouldn't engineer one, I more think they'd use Cuba and similar near misses to cause to division within the US administration and infiltrate it as a dominant English speaking power.

Centrum might be less concerned with The Secret but they would suppress parachronic research to stop competition or emergence of threats, they have one parachronic rival in Homeline (unless they have rivals in Q11) and they'd want to keep it that way.

They're already threatened by Homeline enough to try and shift it away from them, an emergent power in Q6 would be a red flag, all the more reason to sabotage its research and absorb it into the Green Zone.
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:34 PM   #5424
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

If it does work in this world, then presumably their laws of physics do allow for it and it's not against science on their world, and there's no reason to suppose that scientists on their world weren't already expecting this long before they actually got it working.
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Old 03-04-2021, 10:48 AM   #5425
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... avoiding the horror of anything like the Final War ever again is essentially the core of their national ideology - a group coming out and saying a Final War is *ever* a desirable thing is essentially spitting on their most sacred cow. Centrum is maybe pragmatic enough to stand aside and let a Final War happen - they lack the resources to save everybody much as they might wish to - though even then I'd expect at least some minimal effort. But causing one themselves? No. Not without splitting the Interworld Service in two.
Maybe Interworld has their own "Section 31"? The "good guys" in this scenario would be trying to unearth the plot and expose the rogue element within Interworld? It could be an interesting "enemy of my enemy" situation for the ICops.
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Old 03-04-2021, 11:59 AM   #5426
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Maybe Interworld has their own "Section 31"? The "good guys" in this scenario would be trying to unearth the plot and expose the rogue element within Interworld? It could be an interesting "enemy of my enemy" situation for the ICops.
Good idea. It makes sense for Centrum to have it's own rogue factions.
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:58 PM   #5427
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Good idea. It makes sense for Centrum to have it's own rogue factions.
Given the technical edge Centrum has on Infinity, factions within Centrum working at cross purposes may be the only reason Infinity's operations haven't been crushed.
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:08 PM   #5428
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Originally Posted by Kale View Post
Given the technical edge Centrum has on Infinity, factions within Centrum working at cross purposes may be the only reason Infinity's operations haven't been crushed.
Strength of numbers is a significant issue for Centrum, their Earth was shattered by nuclear exchange and biowarfare, the latter can be cured with modern science but the nuked areas and ruined ecosystem will still largely be uninhabitable.

The global population was decimated, infant mortality was 50% plus there may have genetic mutations and sterility from the bio weapons.

So even a century or so later their population is nowhere near Homelines, Centrum has accessed dozens of worlds whereabouts Infinity hundreds.
Centrum could opt to try and nuke Homeline, but it undoubtably has the same worry as Homeline has about Reich 5 what if we donít completely take them out, they will retaliate and Centrum might not survive.

Despite its technological advantage Centrum isnít in a position to crush Homeline
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Old 03-07-2021, 03:01 PM   #5429
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Strength of numbers is a significant issue for Centrum, their Earth was shattered by nuclear exchange and biowarfare, the latter can be cured with modern science but the nuked areas and ruined ecosystem will still largely be uninhabitable.

The global population was decimated, infant mortality was 50% plus there may have genetic mutations and sterility from the bio weapons.

So even a century or so later their population is nowhere near Homelines, Centrum has accessed dozens of worlds whereabouts Infinity hundreds.
Centrum could opt to try and nuke Homeline, but it undoubtably has the same worry as Homeline has about Reich 5 what if we donít completely take them out, they will retaliate and Centrum might not survive.

Despite its technological advantage Centrum isnít in a position to crush Homeline
Yeah, the population disadvantage is probably the biggest reason, or at least one that everyone at The Forum can agree on. It blames the Last War (Centrum excuse for everything they do), is something that can eventually be fixed, and lets everyone kick the can down the road.

Plus, of course, that Centrum just can't reach Homeline.


Unsaid is Centrum's inherent conservatism, unwilling to take on such a big project without absolutely needing to or general consensus. It took almost a century just to get to the Lockridge Protocols, for contacting regular inhabited worlds.

And outside of some well-trained Interworld agents, most of Centrum just isn't used to dealing with an enemy as advanced as Homeline. Centrum's experience is in much more overwhelming technological superiority, such as in Reclamation, where the advantage was as much about supply as tech level (post-Last War warlords might have had the same tanks as The Centrum, but couldn't build new ones or even really fuel the ones they had).

The whole existence of "Secundus" is still kind of shock to Centrum, even years later. The whole world society is based on centralized power, and the existence of a new power on roughly equal footing, even far away, has likely messed with Centran minds. And one doubts the Health Service has the kind of widespread therapists for dealing with it.

Centrum is a bit like China coming face-to-face with European explorers, or even the Native American empires at contact.
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Old 03-07-2021, 06:05 PM   #5430
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Farce

In this Quantum 5 world, all major Homeline politicians instead decided to become comedic actors.
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