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Old 07-01-2021, 07:17 PM   #1
Prince Charon
 
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Default [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

GURPS Powers (pp94-95) introduced the Illusion advantage to GURPS 4e, and added an advantage called 'Stigmata.' This +100% enhancement, which had another +100% enhancement (Mental) as its prerequisite, allowed illusions to be so realistic that the stress of an illusory attack could cause some physical effects. In GURPS Magic (p97), the Phantom spell does something similar, but by combining illusions with knowledge of Movement spells. In certain classic fantasy games from other companies, 'Shadow' magic and other semi-real illusions also exist in various forms (and tech-wise, there's Star Trek's holodecks and the X-Men's Danger Room), so it seems to me that we could model more enhancements and other modifiers to grant the Illusion advantage some physical or semi-physical effects.

The lowest-effort enhancement of this type that I can think of is 'Phantom, +200%,' which is just adding the costs of Mental and Stigmata together and assuming that the background logic is slightly different. Other such modifiers ought to be possible, of course; more specialized and thus lower-cost, for example.


Thoughts?

(I was working on yet another idea that will probably get posted to this forum, when the need for this one occurred to me. The quirks in my .sig are not a joke.)
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Old 01-31-2022, 04:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

Thinking more about the holodeck and similar things as a power, and whether it should be an enhancement to Illusion at all. 'Illusion 1 [25] + Control (Force Constructs) 1 [10] + Create (Force Constructs) 1 [5]' (with whatever modifiers are appropriate) is one possible arrangement, albeit a clunky one, but I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense in context to drop Illusion and just add some fitting enhancements to Control and/or Create to get the same effect. To get an effect similar to the Phantom (VH) spell from GURPS Magic p97, perhaps adding 'Resisted by IQ' or a similar limitation to the Create ability might work. I'm not sure about the base cost listed, but I wasn't able to find an official base cost for Force Constructs in either GURPS Powers or GURPS Supers (which may just mean that I didn't look hard enough). The Create and Control advantages might be listed as 'Phantoms' or something like that instead of 'Force Constructs,' but that depends on the fluff (and whether the setting has something else called 'phantoms').


Thoughts?
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

My first thought is of Powers: The Weird, where one of the abilities of the "Noumena" power, called Demiurgy, is about willing into existance semi-real phenomena and is built with illusion, mental, stigmata, as well as stealing the Broadcast modifier from telecommunication and adding 2 cosmic modifiers: Lingering Effect and "Can heal as well as harm." You might be interested in reading their writeup of the ability. Personally I believe you could construct an entire Magic-as-Powers system with that ability and then other "Practiced Phenomena" based on it (typically as alternate abilities), similar to how Divine Power works.

My second thought is about the force constructs route, which I've had on numerous characters. Powers suggests pairing TK with Illusions to make them seem more real. I usually add Linked (must be used together) and Visual to the TK, and Linked (may be used separately) to the Illusions. For passive structure I add DR with Forcefield, Affects Others, and Aoe to create the "force field bubble" talked about in powers page 108, then add Linked as per the TK and Selective Area. The end result is very similar to Star Trek Holograms: constructs of forcefields and light that are more or less physical but could be disrupted (but not destroyed) with sufficient force. For anything more then the extend of that I look at the "Force Constructs" Power from Gurps Powers (Page 127/128) and flavor it as an extension of illusions. If I want to keep the "you can disbelieve it" I add the Resistable (will) modifier and figure out what "disbelieving" looks like for that type of effect, and that could lead to an Acc: "Can only affect Sentient Entities" modifier as well if the illusions are mental in nature. That said, I steer away from "Create/Control (Mysterious Force aka Force Constructs)" because they'd require me to define the physical properties, including primarily the weight, of a force construct. I find DR, TK, Snatcher, and Allies (minion, adjustable) accomplishes just about anything I want.

Last edited by oneofmanynameless; 02-01-2022 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 02-01-2022, 11:01 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
My first thought is of Powers: The Weird, where one of the abilities of the "Noumena" power, called Demiurgy, is about willing into existance semi-real phenomena and is built with illusion, mental, stigmata, as well as stealing the Broadcast modifier from telecommunication and adding 2 cosmic modifiers: Lingering Effect and "Can heal as well as harm." You might be interested in reading their writeup of the ability. Personally I believe you could construct an entire Magic-as-Powers system with that ability and then other "Practiced Phenomena" based on it (typically as alternate abilities), similar to how Divine Power works.
Indeed that was one of the things I had in mind when I wrote it up.
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Old 02-01-2022, 11:28 AM   #5
oneofmanynameless
 
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Default Re: [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Indeed that was one of the things I had in mind when I wrote it up.
At one point my brother and I talked about doing that while also making it based on skills. Breaking things down into categories of phenomena and having a Ritual Magic skill for each category, with individual spells as techniques off of the core skill (usually deciding on the technique penalties using Abilities on Default and Temporary Modifiers rules from Powers to make Power Techniques). Using the unlimited mana system from Thaumatology, as well as a lot of task modifiers that might apply to Path/Book magic from that book as well. Only way to use the whole advantage at full strength and versatility was to have the Magic! skill. Never got to play with the build, but it was enticing.
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Old 12-15-2023, 04:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

Thinking about a limitation that could work with this concept: 'Conformal (Linked Illusion), -30%.' Generally applied to Telekinesis or DR with Force Field, the effect follows the shape of an Illusion that the ability is linked to, thus making it 'seem real,' but it can't be used to do things other than making the Illusion seem real. Not totally sure about the name, but it seems to work, and I basically picked -30% because I wasn't sure if it was limiting enough to be worth -40%; maybe I'm wrong, and it's only limiting enough to be -20%, though.

What do you think?
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Old 12-15-2023, 02:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Powers, Magic-as-Powers] Stimata and other 'physical' Illusion modifiers

Possibly relevant, sort of from the other side of the coin, note the Glamour limitation.
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