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Old 10-02-2020, 09:58 PM   #221
VIVIT
 
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Default Re: Rules you ignore/alter.

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Unusual Back Ground

There are usually enough disadvantages to cover for any super power or psi powered abilities.
UB is useful when a particular advantage is rare in a setting, and more powerful as a result of being rare. Magic users have a major advantage over non-magic users. If magic-users are rare, then magic users have that advantage over a greater proportion of people than would be the case if magic users were common. To paraphrase Syndrome: If everyone's Super, no one is. A corollary to this is that if only a small few are Super, they're VERY Super. That's worth points.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:22 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by VIVIT View Post
UB is useful when a particular advantage is rare in a setting, and more powerful as a result of being rare.
The main reason I'm leery of unusual background is that I feel that most of the advantages that are likely to deserve UB already have a fairly substantial unusual background baked into their cost and should have a significantly lower base cost in a campaign where they're actually common.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:28 PM   #223
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The main reason I'm leery of unusual background is that I feel that most of the advantages that are likely to deserve UB already have a fairly substantial unusual background baked into their cost and should have a significantly lower base cost in a campaign where they're actually common.
I think the big thing about UB is "can people deal with you?". Warp is a powerful advantage that's like 4 different abilities wrapped up in one with a major one (the ability to get around barriers) being probably the most problematic. If NPCs do not know how to deal with Warp and can't make any barrier that stops you, that would require UB because you have more utility than is assumed with the trait. Then look at Flight (Wings). Flight is an incredibly useful advantage for nearly any character... but most settings can deal with winged creatures already and can easily change things for you. In the middle is something like a undetectable built-in rifle. Rifles already have problems that modern day can deal with, but your IA specifically gets around some of them and lets you take a gun where you shouldn't sometimes, so it would be a smaller UB.

If there are advantages like you say, then I would rather lower their costs and then reverse build Unusual Background for them from that and house rule the smaller cost as the new base cost.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:32 PM   #224
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I use a disad limit of 50 points, pretty much regardless of total point value. If I did place a limit, some of my players would stack on far too many disads, especially on lower point value characters.
I always tell my players... Taking a disadvantage is handing me a stick to beat your PC with. The more points, the bigger the stick. Expect me to use it. I have only had one player in recent memory make such bad choices that they regretted it, and it drove the narrative into a citywide manhunt for the PC that forced him into permanent hiding as a way to escape the price on his head.
If you pile up the Disads, prepare to return frequently to the character generation portion of the game.
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:21 PM   #225
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I think the big thing about UB is "can people deal with you?".
Powers handles this with countermeasure limitations. The base cost is the cost of an ability assumes that there are no special means of neutralizing it baked into the setting. On the other hand, Pulver actually touches upon Anthony's issue in his "Magic as Psi" article. He he found that a refluffed Magic worked better than Psionic Powers at TL10^-12^ where players who invested in psi ended up marginalized compared to players who invested elsewhere and just used the tech that was widely available in the setting, because Magic is cheap yet balanced against itself with lots of internal countermeasures.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:10 AM   #226
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Powers handles this with countermeasure limitations. The base cost is the cost of an ability assumes that there are no special means of neutralizing it baked into the setting.
Right, I was talking about 'normal' means of neutralizing. When a given advantage is 'common', people know how to take care of it. If you are literally the only person who has it, the surprise value can and will continuously trick foes and npcs won't be able to stop it from a combination of lack of knowledge and lack of infrastructure.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:35 AM   #227
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If there are advantages like you say, then I would rather lower their costs and then reverse build Unusual Background for them from that and house rule the smaller cost as the new base cost.
My experience is that the majority of Exotic traits are only fairly priced in situations where they're rare, or are simply overpriced all the time.
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Old 10-03-2020, 01:23 AM   #228
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My experience is that the majority of Exotic traits are only fairly priced in situations where they're rare, or are simply overpriced all the time.
I guess I'd need examples, because I've never heard of anyone thinking that Flight, Affliction (the first level), ATR, Unkillable, Enhanced Time Sense, Regeneration, etc as being overpriced.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 10-03-2020, 02:30 AM   #229
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I guess I'd need examples, because I've never heard of anyone thinking that Flight, Affliction (the first level), ATR, Unkillable, Enhanced Time Sense, Regeneration, etc as being overpriced.
Flight isn't. Affliction is only useful if it's a malediction. ATR and Unkillable are generally less effective than putting the same number of points into ordinary combat traits (a skill 35 weapon master beats a skill 15 character with ATR....). Everything ETS does in excess of Combat Reflexes is very poorly defined.

Exotic traits are generally balanced against other exotic traits and poorly balanced against mundane traits.
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Old 10-03-2020, 03:51 AM   #230
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Flight isn't. Affliction is only useful if it's a malediction. ATR and Unkillable are generally less effective than putting the same number of points into ordinary combat traits (a skill 35 weapon master beats a skill 15 character with ATR....). Everything ETS does in excess of Combat Reflexes is very poorly defined.

Exotic traits are generally balanced against other exotic traits and poorly balanced against mundane traits.
Well, some notes in particular;
Affliction is generally underpowered without Malediction and so, so good with it that it's generally assumed to take the modifier. Affliction I would argue is built wrong, not just a simple cost problem.
Points in skills and points in advantages don't seem to 'convert' well. There's just too much going on for that type of comparison to work well.
Comparing a trait in a very specific area where one is better than the other will of course make one look better. ATR is good always, great in combat, and good at helping damage output.
I don't know much about Unkillable 1, but the other two give such an awesome privilege that 'requiring' Regeneration is about the only thing keeping them in check from what I can tell. Many traits help you not die but Unkillable literally guarantees it.
Off the top of my head ETS guarantees first turn. Considering how many fights I've seen solved on the first turn that alone is enough to make my players clamor for it.

Now, if you wanted to compare similar traits at low costs, I can see it. Danger Sense, Combat Reflexes, and Luck are quite possibly the most efficient places to spend points and I do agree that probably any similarly costed exotic advantage likely is worse. Some I have directly cheapened (Unaging, Regrowth*) but most seem fine at their costs that people still take them over the big three (Tough Skin 5, Discriminatory Smell, Alternate Form, Immunity to Poison, etc) and others are great because you'll build around them (TK, Extra Arm, Payload, Penetrating Vision).

Now if you want to say there are advantages that are better when randomly slapped on a character, I totally agree there.

*I had totally forgotten I cheapened them because it was so long ago I made that change. I forget they aren't normally 5 and 10pts respectively. As always, thanks PK.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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