Small creatures grappling

[copeab]

Originally Posted by geppo_68

Thanks to all!!
Now I can judge this and similar situations..

Now on to what you really wanted, a pack of demonic squirrels ...

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anders

Just moving through a cat-dense area while carrying food should require a DX roll to avoid tripping.

That's accurate. I've been around actual herds of cats . . . I have no difficulty at all believing that 12+ cats that had it in for a person could trip them to the ground. The implausible bit is cats cooperating for any purpose.

Originally Posted by copeab

Now on to what you really wanted, a pack of demonic squirrels ...

I saw these this morning in the park. They were terrorizing a small dog. I'm not even joking.

Oh, and I saw others running around with onions (I have no idea where they found those . . .), chasing birds, and literally bouncing off the walls of a nearby building.

[geppo_68]

Originally Posted by copeab

Now on to what you really wanted, a pack of demonic squirrels ...

well..giant rats, dire spiders, little gnawing goblins, assassin leeches...

my players are quite used to fight with firearms in a ranged firefight, now just for fun we try a brief dungeon crawl campaign and they are about to be surprised with the delights of (very) close combat!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I saw these this morning in the park. They were terrorizing a small dog. I'm not even joking.

I recall some studies about jackals vs lions (both of which occur in packs, but which are significantly different in size), which determined that the general winner was whichever group had more total mass. This seems sensibly generalizable.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Oh, and I saw others running around with onions (I have no idea where they found those . . .), chasing birds, and literally bouncing off the walls of a nearby building.

Assuming the onions weren't wild onions, probably someone's trash or compost pile? Squirrels are a pest.

[Balor Patch]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I recall some studies about jackals vs lions (both of which occur in packs, but which are significantly different in size), which determined that the general winner was whichever group had more total mass. This seems sensibly generalizable.

I'm pretty sure that article, in Scientific American IIRC, spelled jackal "hyena".

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Balor Patch

I'm pretty sure that article, in Scientific American IIRC, spelled jackal "hyena".

Quite possible. My memory is pretty vague.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by geppo_68

Basic rules, no dungeon grappling or similar..that is a normal human with ST10 grappling me gives me -4 DX, so 2 ST 5 (Equivalent to ST7) and size -3 gives me how much?

Ah OK, the basic rules don't vary the DX pen, but as pointed out the ganging up rules increase the grappling skill which makes it more likely the set DX penalty will occur.

Given the way the multiple opponents rules work (pg 392 at cited by Kromm) and how smaller grapplers can gang up, this compounds.

I think I'd make smaller* grapplers base their grapple skill off ST not DX that way the 9 house cats in Kromm's example would be grappling at 10+skill not 36+skill. So they'd have a reasonable chance of inflicting the penalty but not a an near automatic one

Thing is with grapple being DX based low ST high DX creatures get weird, at DX14+skill a single house cat has a pretty good change of inflicting a -4 DX penalty by itself on a norm ST10 DX10 human even though it weighs a fraction of the persons weight!

(there's also the point that a lot of our practical interactions with house cat come with a baseline of us not hurting them)




That said as Kromm points out just getting the initial grapple is only the start, lots of the things you want to do afterwards are down to ST and size.



*maybe set the threshold for this crossover at -2 or -3 SM difference.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Kromm

That's accurate. I've been around actual herds of cats . . . I have no difficulty at all believing that 12+ cats that had it in for a person could trip them to the ground. The implausible bit is cats cooperating for any purpose.

Mind control, maybe?

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anders

Just moving through a cat-dense area while carrying food should require a DX roll to avoid tripping.

Wouldn't that be like the roll to Evade when traveling through an occupied hex?

Except failing that is some weird "you don't pass" without consequence like tripping/bumping