Zeroed as a Disadvantage

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

This is a Mundane Social disadvantage. It's unfortunately common among homeless people, particularly those who grew up in the foster system, in real life. How much would you price it at?

Given that Social Stigma: Dead - where you have no recognized legal rights - is -30 points, my guess is between -5 and -20 depending on the Control Rating of the campaign setting and the benevolence of the local society.

It's -5 if there's enough of an informal economy that you can more or less survive and there are enough charities and public services that you can get basic medical care, shelter, legal aid, etc. if you really need it.

A typical 21st century undocumented/illegal immigrant might have this problem, possibly with a Social Stigma if they're obviously poor and foreign. Add some level of Enemy if immigration authorities or police are likely to hassle them.

Price goes up to -10 or -15 if you're really marginalized and your lack of documents seriously limits your ability to function day-to-day. This might be the case in a virtually cashless society where you can't get any sort bank account or credit, or where proof of ID is regularly required in order to have freedom of movement.

It's worth -20 or more in a malevolent CR 5 society where documentation is required for even routine activities and you face serious consequences if you can't present identity documents. Effectively, this is the same as Social Stigma: Subjugated.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

Of course, if the campaign involves secrecy and infiltration, being a ghost is probably an Advantage. "We have a nice security cam shot of this person casing the place but facial rec gets no hits....."

Zeroed was originally designed for GURPS 3E Cyberpunk with exactly this premise in mind. In a world where there is a thriving black market and underground economy, but also massive and authoritarian government surveillance, being invisible to the authorities is a serious advantage.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by DeadParrot

Or worse, the ones that require a smartphone to operate.

Which is increasingly prevalent. It's already the case that a lot of sporting and entertainment venues no longer print tickets, and exclusively download to smartphones. The same for travel on bus lines: the one in my area will only grudgingly accept a boarding pass printed out on your own printer -- and if you lack a computer or a smartphone, then you don't get to ride. A lot of essential services are now obtainable through smartphones only.

And that's in America -- those of us in touch with foreign news know full well the hardships of those in India who aren't on the Aadhaar grid, for instance. I give it 5 years on the outside before lacking a smartphone is a major, major impediment to life in the Western world.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

I give it 5 years on the outside before lacking a smartphone is a major, major impediment to life in the Western world.

I mean, depending on your definition of major, it already is.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by naloth

That's for a generic -1 reaction to everyone.

I'd use Secret (no legal identity) [-10] since you can't tell it just by looking at that person. If discovered you'll probably have more than 20 points work of issues (enemy? social stigma - no rights?).

It would be a Secret if you had forged documents. And no, you wouldn't generally experience consequences that severe just for being discovered with no ID. About the worst thing that might happen outside of a totalitarian dictatorship is deportation. Even undocumented people have some rights in nations that respect rights.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by naloth

That's for a generic -1 reaction to everyone.

I'd use Secret (no legal identity) [-10] since you can't tell it just by looking at that person.

While RAW does say that social stigma should be obvious, there are a number of examples that aren't actually obvious. It should probably be a larger penalty with a frequency of recognition.

[oneofmanynameless]

Originally Posted by JulianLW

... and work without paying taxes and get your checks cashed without a bank...

I learned the hard way that you can't normally cash checks without a bank. Banks usually won't cash a check, even one issued by them, if you don't have an account with them or a connected bank. At least where I live.

Originally Posted by JulianLW

I'm not really sure, but I suspect that whatever might happen to you when you got pulled over by a cop and it was discovered you had no identification of any kind would be highly dependent on the discretion of the cop and, maybe, a judge, if you had been committing some kind of crime. You'd probably just be treated like a homeless person, which is to say, released into the wild to fend for yourself - or maybe escorted to the county line?

My sister is a social worker who has had to work with people who have this disad and arrest, or incarceration with very little representation isn't at all unlikely. Anything that could be illegal suddenly becomes jail worthy. At least in most places in the U.S. Obviously the attitude of the cop you're interacting with matters really a lot here. But you're basically at their mercy.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

I learned the hard way that you can't normally cash checks without a bank. Banks usually won't cash a check, even one issued by them, if you don't have an account with them or a connected bank. At least where I live.
.

That's key to the business model of check cashing places.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

Which is increasingly prevalent. It's already the case that a lot of sporting and entertainment venues no longer print tickets, and exclusively download to smartphones. The same for travel on bus lines: the one in my area will only grudgingly accept a boarding pass printed out on your own printer -- and if you lack a computer or a smartphone, then you don't get to ride. A lot of essential services are now obtainable through smartphones only.

And that's in America -- those of us in touch with foreign news know full well the hardships of those in India who aren't on the Aadhaar grid, for instance. I give it 5 years on the outside before lacking a smartphone is a major, major impediment to life in the Western world.

I don't see why a Zeroed person would be unable to get a smartphone. Sure, they can't get a typical post-pay account, but something prepaid doesn't require any sort of identification - you buy the phone, then buy more cards (for minutes/data/time) as you need them, and simply go through the same checkout procedure as buying anything else from the store. Activating the phone (and applying any cards) doesn't require anything special from what I recall, although it has been quite some time since I was on a prepaid account (it was a flip-phone, which should give you a hint of roughly how long ago that was).

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's key to the business model of check cashing places.

I believe a lot of convenience stores, and many grocery stores, will also cash checks, for a fee. Also, places willing to hire undocumented workers may well be inclined to pay in cash.

[JulianLW]

Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless

I learned the hard way that you can't normally cash checks without a bank. Banks usually won't cash a check, even one issued by them, if you don't have an account with them or a connected bank. At least where I live.


My sister is a social worker who has had to work with people who have this disad and arrest, or incarceration with very little representation isn't at all unlikely. Anything that could be illegal suddenly becomes jail worthy. At least in most places in the U.S. Obviously the attitude of the cop you're interacting with matters really a lot here. But you're basically at their mercy.

There's check cashing places for poor people and illegals.

As far as I can tell, most municipalities aren't lining up to giving free room and board in the town jail just because you're a nobody. But being a nobody can be a pretty reason to commit a crime on a cold night.