04-18-2020, 09:39 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
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It would seem strange that so many of the sources I have would get it wrong; at the same time, I must take into account that none of those sources have so much as hinted at the idea of a breastplate stopping a cannonball. |
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04-18-2020, 09:42 PM | #22 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
Quote:
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04-18-2020, 09:47 PM | #23 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
I can literally point you to store pages where you can order ballistic armor that has a carrier for an armor plate on the outside.
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04-18-2020, 09:55 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
Regarding Renaissance examples of textile armour:
Two of them are in the Holstentor Museum in Lübeck A partial example is in a Stendal museum - the chest section is still intact. One is in the Musée des beaux-arts in Chartres One is in the parish church of Rothwell, near Leeds Two Indian examples: The Victoria and Albert Museum has a layered cotton example from India (called a peti). It is a little over an inch thick. The Royal Armouries has similar peti from the arsenal of Tipu Sultan. The MET has a Korean example: "The tunic of this armor is composed of thirty layers of a tough cotton fabric, skillfully cut and sandwiched together with hemp stitching to give an overall thickness of less than one inch. Weight: 6,207g" Some texts telling us how they were constructed: Ordinances of Louis XI of France (15th C) "And first they must have for the said Jacks, 30, or at least 25 folds of cloth and a stag's skin; those of 30, with the stag's skin, being the best cloth that has been worn and rendered flexible, is best for this purpose, and these Jacks should be made in four quarters. The sleeves should be as strong as the body, with the exception of the leather, and the arm-hole of the sleeve must be large, which arm-hole should be placed near the collar, not on the bone of the shoulder, that it may be broad under the armpit and full under the arm, sufficiently ample and large on the sides below. The collar should be like the rest of the Jack, but not too high behind, to allow room for the sallet. This Jack should be laced in front, and under the opening must be a hanging piece [porte piece] of the same strength as the Jack itself. Thus the Jack will be secure and easy, provided that there be a doublet [pourpoint] without sleeves or collar, of two folds of cloth, that shall be only four fingers broad on the shoulder; to which doublet shall be attached the chausess. Thus shall the wearer float, as it were, within his jack and be at his ease; for never have been seen half a dozen men killed by stabs or arrow wounds in such Jacks, particularly if they be troops accustomed to fighting." Howard Household Accounts (15th C): "I took to the doublet maker, to make me a doublet of fence; for every four quarters: 18 folds thick of white fustian, and 4 folds of linen cloth, and a fold of black fustian to put without." Companion of Hernan Cortez (16th C) "The armour which they use in war are certain garments like doublets made of quilted cotton, a finger and a half thick, and sometimes two fingers; they are very strong. Over them they wear a doublet and hose all one garment, which are corded behind. This garment is made of thick cloth and is covered with a layer of feathers of different colours, making a fine effect… for neither arrows nor darts pierce them, but are thrown back without making any wound, and even with swords it is difficult to penetrate through them." Aguado, History of Venezuela (16th C) "Out of sacking or light linen cloths they make a kind of surcoat that they call 'escaupil'. These fall below the knee, and sometimes to the calf. They are all stuffed with cotton, to the thickness of three fingers. The layers of cotton are quilted between folds of linen and sewed with rough thread…" The Irish "Cattle Raid of Cooley" (7th C) says that Cúchulainn was wearing armour made of 27 layers of linen (liente) and an apron made from the hide of yearling oxen. More sources here: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpB...39cc368f490rl] Sean Manning is a regular poster here. He is currently researching this topic in more depth. Hopefully he will notice this thread and comment.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 04-18-2020 at 10:07 PM. |
04-18-2020, 10:05 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
Quote:
As to whether someone might wear padded armour, a steel breastplate, and an armour gambeson of an inch or two thickness; or padded armour, an armour gambeson of an inch or two thickness, and a steel breastplate - both sound quite like the Michelin Man in proportions to me, and thus either seems equally likely. More accurately, each seems equally unlikely; although, you would certainly be well-protected either way! :D |
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04-18-2020, 10:25 PM | #26 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
So? That plate is less than a foot square. It isn't a cuirass or even a breastplate. Low-Tech would call it a "pectoral". I agree that it is possible to wear pectorals over the top of textile armour.
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Compact Castles gives the gamer an instant portfolio of genuine, real-world castle floorplans to use in any historical, low-tech, or fantasy game setting. Last edited by DanHoward; 04-18-2020 at 10:43 PM. |
04-18-2020, 10:37 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
Quote:
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04-18-2020, 10:49 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
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B) Not that one could possibly draw that conclusion from the text without extensive back-derivation efforts, since 'a foot square' is a description that doesn't relate at all to the usages in either book. Moreover: C) I'm not really impressed by that claim of correctness-by-definition, especially when: D) You raised no objection to said plate being described as "not dramatically different from a breastplate" back in post #2.
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04-18-2020, 11:03 PM | #29 |
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
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04-19-2020, 04:54 AM | #30 | |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: Retro-modern armour for alternate timelines
Quote:
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