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Old 05-08-2017, 04:51 PM   #1
Kraken
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

In GURPS Space, the Habitability Modifiers (p. 88) list the following modifiers for no or non-breathable atmosphere.

Quote:
No atmosphere or Trace atmosphere 0
Non-Breathable atmosphere, Very Thin or above, Suffocating, Toxic and Corrosive -2
Non-Breathable atmosphere, Very Thin or above, Suffocating and Toxic only -1
Non-Breathable atmosphere, Very Thin or above, Suffocating only 0
This seems a bit odd to me as it implies that it is easy to live in hard vacuum than it is on a world with an atmosphere that simply requires air filtration or supplementary oxygen supply.

Is the 0 modifier for No or trace atmosphere correct? Is there errata anywhere amending this?

I would have assumed a penalty at least equal to suffocating and toxic (-1) or probably -2.

Does anyone have any house rules around Habitability modifiers that expand on the list from the main book?
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
In GURPS Space, the Habitability Modifiers (p. 88) list the following modifiers for no or non-breathable atmosphere.



This seems a bit odd to me as it implies that it is easy to live in hard vacuum than it is on a world with an atmosphere that simply requires air filtration or supplementary oxygen supply.
That's not what it means. It means:
Atmosphere is at least Very Thin and Suffocating and Toxic and Corrosive: -2
Atmosphere is at least Very Thin and Suffocating and Toxic: -1
Atmosphere is at least Very Thin and Suffocating: 0

Theory being, I assume, that it's better to have nothing out there than to have something actively poisonous trying to make its way inside.
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:59 PM   #3
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
In GURPS Space, the Habitability Modifiers (p. 88) list the following modifiers for no or non-breathable atmosphere.



This seems a bit odd to me as it implies that it is easy to live in hard vacuum than it is on a world with an atmosphere that simply requires air filtration or supplementary oxygen supply.

Is the 0 modifier for No or trace atmosphere correct? Is there errata anywhere amending this?

I would have assumed a penalty at least equal to suffocating and toxic (-1) or probably -2.

Does anyone have any house rules around Habitability modifiers that expand on the list from the main book?
It's correct because Toxic and Corrosive atmospheres require much, much more than air filtration or a supplementary oxygen supply. They are chemically active. They will eat through your gear. The difference between Toxic and Corrosive is how fast they'll eat through your gear.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Theory being, I assume, that it's better to have nothing out there than to have something actively poisonous trying to make its way inside.
That's always how I read it: It's easier to live somewhere with no air than one where the atmosphere is sabotaging your equipment all the time.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
That's always how I read it: It's easier to live somewhere with no air than one where the atmosphere is sabotaging your equipment all the time.
I understand that a corrosive atmosphere would cause issues above and beyond that found in other atmospheric conditions. However, I still can't see how an absolute absence of atmosphere is more livable than one that just requires some kind of treatment or supplementary gasses,

Surely establishing a colony on a world with a toxic atmosphere would require filtration of toxic gases, and possible mixing in oxygen supply or similar, but you would still be able to use the existing atmosphere in some way.

In no atmosphere, every par of the atmosphere has to be supplied, created, or shipped in somehow.

Even if the planet's toxic atmosphere means that none of the atmospheric gases can be used, surely the very fact that there is an atmosphere must be better than hard vacuum. Just the fact that there is pressure on both sides of whatever structure you build must make things easier. A toxic atmosphere doesn't tend to lead to explosive decompression of living space.

Even a highly toxic, suffocating and corrosive atmosphere would also provide atmospheric shielding against radiation and highly-energised particles.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

"Filtering" contaminants can often require more equipment and resources than simply supplying air from tanks. On top of that, you have to actively keep those contaminants out at all times. It's not just keeping good air in and purifying it. If any toxic contaminants get into the air supply - those contaminants just floating around outside waiting for any means of egress - you end up with health issues up to and including death. In vaccum or simply suffocating atmospheres, you don't have that problem.

And corrosive atmospheres are actively eating away at all your attempts to keep the toxic, corrosive chemicals out of your air!

As far as shielding against radiation goes, that is an easily solvable problem regardless of the world: live underground. It only takes a few meters of dirt to protect against solar radiation, and even 30ish meters (iirc) will defend against Jupiter's insane syncrotron at Io's orbit. This is less of a concern than odorless, colorless chemicals poisoning your air supply and killing everyone because it wormed its way in through some coincidence or accident.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

Corrosive atmosphere isn't an issue just because of "treatment" - the problem is that it will eat your walls, and your door, and everything you use to try to seal it out. Even if you're never touching it, never breathing it, never going out in it, it comes in. Everywhere.

Toxic will be on all your crap - it's not "we have to pump poison in and denature it", you may never do that and rely on a sealed system. The problem is "everything and everyone that goes out in it needs to be cleansed to get the poison off".
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Space] Habitability Modifier for Trace and No Atmosphere

I've been playing a lot of Oxygen Not Included, which makes you deal with these things. And flammable gasses. And temperature, heat conductivity of your building materials, and your crew going insane from being stuck in a suffocating rock hellhole surrounded by poison and monsters.

It's driven the point home about the problem of even crew tracking stuff in on their feet.

Someone who's played Dwarf Fortress has probably dealt with that too, with forgotten beast poison.
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