experimenting with Villains and Vigilantes

[David Johnston2]

The correct way to phrase that limitation is "Not when exposed to red sun radiation". There were enough bad guys artificially producing red sunlight to depower Superman that it counted.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The correct way to phrase that limitation is "Not when exposed to red sun radiation". There were enough bad guys artificially producing red sunlight to depower Superman that it counted.

Of course, neither of those is going to apply to the Supeman of 1938. His powers didn't come from the radiation of a yellow sun, or even from the higher gravity of Krypton; they came from Krypton being an older planet than Earth, whose inhabitants were evolutionarily advanced (because "evolutionary advance" for sapient humanoids meant enhanced physical prowess).

When I started reading comics in the 1950s, Kryptonian powers were mostly explained by Krypton being a largely planet with higher gravitation (though in fact it's inconceivable that any planet could have a gravitational field strong enough to account for Kryptonian strength). Yellow solar radiation accounted for his invulnerability, which was explained as an effect on his skin analogous to tanning (which would suggest that it wouldn't fade quickly if he left Earth for a planet of a red sun). His other powers weren't accounted for.

The later Silver Age Superman was vastly more powerful than the John Byrne Superman.

I would also say that "empowered by yellow solar radiation" and "disempowered by red solar radiation" are not the same. If it's the former—and really that makes more sense to me—then beaming red solar radiation at him would result in his being exposed to a combined spectrum of red and yellow, which would still include all the energy of yellow solar output; if anything it might marginally increase his powers. The writers who came up with beaming red solar output at him clearly didn't understand the physics.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I would also say that "empowered by yellow solar radiation" and "disempowered by red solar radiation" are not the same. If it's the former—and really that makes more sense to me—then beaming red solar radiation at him would result in his being exposed to a combined spectrum of red and yellow, which would still include all the energy of yellow solar output; if anything it might marginally increase his powers. The writers who came up with beaming red solar output at him clearly didn't understand the physics.

Usually the red sun radiation thing, at least in the last 40 years, has been "lure him underground or into an insulated room then turn on the sun lamps".

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Usually the red sun radiation thing, at least in the last 40 years, has been "lure him underground or into an insulated room then turn on the sun lamps".

Yeah, but in the last 20 years this weakness has been tied to "how much yellow radiation have I soaked up, and how long have I gone without yellow radiation?"

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Usually the red sun radiation thing, at least in the last 40 years, has been "lure him underground or into an insulated room then turn on the sun lamps".

Can he still use his powers underground if it's just totally dark? Back in the Silver Age he certainly could; being at the bottom of a mine didn't shut him down.

If his powers still work under those conditions, I don't see why bombarding him with added energy would have any effect. Not if you think of it physically.

[cptbutton]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The correct way to phrase that limitation is "Not when exposed to red sun radiation". There were enough bad guys artificially producing red sunlight to depower Superman that it counted.

I recall some comic where the villain lured him to some planet illuminated by red crystals rather then stars, thinking he would be powerless. But it turns out while some of his powers were from being in a yellow star system, other powers were from not being in a red star system, and red crystals don't count.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by cptbutton

I recall some comic where the villain lured him to some planet illuminated by red crystals rather then stars, thinking he would be powerless. But it turns out while some of his powers were from being in a yellow star system, other powers were from not being in a red star system, and red crystals don't count.

That's the sort of thing that happens when a character is written by a dozen or two different authors over many years, and each of them has their own ideas about how things work. In fact, mainstream comics generally are an unspeakable mess because of that sort of thing.

[Astromancer]

The writers who came up with beaming red solar output at him clearly didn't understand the physics.

That counts as an understatement, right?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

That counts as an understatement, right?

I'm not sure. What would you take as an accurately forceful statement of the point? (Not a hyperbolic overstatement, though such would surely be possible.)

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm not sure. What would you take as an accurately forceful statement of the point? (Not a hyperbolic overstatement, though such would surely be possible.)

I think "ignored the physics because they didn't care" would be more to the point.


(Complaining that Superman doesn't follow rigorous physics strikes me as rather like complaining that Harry Potter doesn't- perfectly true, and perfectly irrelevant.)