12-14-2022, 11:45 AM | #71 | |
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Thieves
Quote:
If DF Thieves could buy Rapier Wit they would be pretty decent, even if nothing else on their template changed. I'm not sure it's idiomatic, but if you view Peter Quill in Guardians of the Galaxy as a Thief, his dance-off at the end of the movie is sort of similar to Rapier Wit both thematically and in mechanical effect: Ronan stares at him in disbelief for several seconds before resuming his evil plan. |
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12-14-2022, 02:29 PM | #72 | |
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Thieves
"In Plain View" gives a penalty, it doesn't negate a Stealth roll entirely.
A Thief with a high enough Stealth could run up (no penalties) on ambushers (-5), from the front (no penalties), in a brightly lit (-5) tunnel, while under Extra Heavy Encumbrance (-4) and still remain 'hidden'. It's just extra penalties to the Thief's Stealth skill (the first -5 is just to perform the action). I mean, DFRPG Exploits pg 57 allows a Backstab attempt even if the Thief's group was ambushed, this implies that a spotted Thief can disappear from view and move into Backstab position! And this isn't even a Contested roll, it's just Stealth with some penalties (up to -19 canonically). I've a Martial Artist with a Stealth that is routinely in the lower 30's, after bonuses from Silence (+4) and Light Walk (up to +8), it's a 26 skill before those bonuses, who likes to start fights with a front 'Back'stab (or an actual Backstab if they don't have eyes) just for the +4 and the "style" of the attack. In fact only two things call out automatically failing Stealth: Carrying lights and making a lot of noise (specifically singing, shouting, or arguing, though I'd count other massive noise sources as well, like banging pots together, or playing a musical instrument, etc). In DFRPG Exploits some feats of ST are also called out as completely negating Stealth, but have no bearing on this specific topic... Quote:
"The attacker can All-Out Attack for further bonuses, but this isn’t recommended - attacking reveals the delver’s presence!" from DFRPG Exploits pg 58. To me it means that until they attack their presence is unknown, eg. they are hidden. Even if it's a well-lit corridor with nowhere to hide (a mere -5 to the roll). |
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12-14-2022, 02:39 PM | #73 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Thieves
Quote:
If two groups meet in a field, empty room, or other area with clear sightlines and no hiding spots, and neither enjoys supernatural concealment (e.g., invisibility), nobody has surprise! Implication: sneaking is impossible and Stealth is irrelevant if there are no hiding spots. Quote:
Quote:
I interpret that as commentary and tactical advice. This isn't D&D 5E with its unclear writing and poor editing; SJG is usually pretty good at writing clear rules. I presume that if you were intended to assume that the backstabber can cast spells like Haste and Major Healing, move around in the open, and anything else that isn't attacking while the enemy remains ignorant to his presence, the rules would say so plainly. (And then I would ignore those rules if you had no hiding place, because they'd be unrealistic.) In other words, I interpret that as a friendly reminder that All-Out Attack is risky. Last edited by sjmdw45; 12-14-2022 at 03:25 PM. |
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12-14-2022, 04:00 PM | #74 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Thieves
Quote:
Stealth is not a cloak of invisibility. |
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12-14-2022, 04:12 PM | #75 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Thieves
Successful use implies the presence of convenient shadows or bushes.
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12-15-2022, 01:50 AM | #76 |
Join Date: May 2011
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Re: Thieves
It’s Schroedinger’s convenient cover. You assume it’s there if you successfully look for it.
My budget for set dressing is almost infinite in these games. If nothing else, it’s just that the film of the action is edited in a confusing way. Like, “suddenly, there’s a chair with a jacket over it,”or “in the chaos of battle, his attention was on the flashy knight,” or “the shadow from the branch just above the fight obscured your presence.” The players’ suspension of disbelief is bolstered by how well it works out for their character. |
12-15-2022, 03:03 AM | #77 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Thieves
In this case since you are both designating the battlefield and drawing the maps, it's pretty easy to just make it so it's possible to hide. If you really want a blank well-lit featureless narrow corridor, the only reason is because you are deliberately making stealth impossible.
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12-15-2022, 05:05 AM | #78 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: Thieves
Quote:
But this isn't a unique case. If you try to Backstab in I Smell a Rat's cellar, you're going to wind up in spider webs getting stabbed by spiders with speed 6.50, faster than you. There are some other rooms in I Smell A Rat where backstabbing works better though. E.g. backstabbing the peshkali is probably fine--she has no reason to turn around and notice you until after you hit her. Quote:
Last edited by sjmdw45; 12-15-2022 at 05:14 AM. |
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12-15-2022, 05:31 AM | #79 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Thieves
Or you just draw a shadow or some bushes on there. A successful backstab rolls means they are hiding somewhere.
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12-15-2022, 06:47 AM | #80 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: Thieves
I had a thief in the alpha playtest hide in an enemy's shadow because they rolled a 3 and the bad guy rolled an 18. I know it's not contested, but ... come on. That margin was crazy. :-)
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