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Old 12-17-2010, 01:00 PM   #1
Grouchy Chris
 
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Default Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

Combat Reflexes gives you "+6 on all IQ rolls to wake up" (B43). But if you have Deep Sleeper, then "you get an IQ roll to notice disturbances and awaken, just like anyone else; success is automatic if you have Combat Reflexes" (B101).

So, if you have Combat Reflexes, Deep Sleeper means you wake up more easily? How does that make sense?

Or, if this is an error, what should be the rule?
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

It makes sense, because combining two advantages together should be more better, not worse?

Deep sleeper isn't enitrely worth a whole point. Consider it sort of worth 0.5 points or 0.65 points, but GURPS doesn't charge fractional points because that way lies annoying book-keeping.

So you have to round up to one point, but there's a little extra feature to try and round out the price. Someone with Combat Reflexes already gets +6 to wake up, Deep Sleeper makes that automatic because on average, it's only about a 1% chance of failure anyways. It's a tiny, niche circumstance that's already almost guarenteed success, so 0.3 points (or whatever) to bump it to automatic is pretty fair.

If you're just having problems with the NAME "deep sleeper" - all I can say is don't sweat names. Names are convenient labels, not the essence of the thing, and sometimes things are named inappropriately (see also the disad Honesty which has nothing to do with telling the truth or keeping your word ;)
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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It makes sense, because combining two advantages together should be more better, not worse?
You could say the same of any two advantages. But the primary effect of Deep Sleeper is that ordinary disturbances don't cost you sleep. Why should extraordinary disturbances be easier to handle?

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If you're just having problems with the NAME "deep sleeper" - all I can say is don't sweat names. Names are convenient labels, not the essence of the thing, and sometimes things are named inappropriately (see also the disad Honesty which has nothing to do with telling the truth or keeping your word ;)
It's not just the name. It's that going by the primary effect of the perk, I don't see why the side effect is there. Also, B139, on Honesty: "You always keep your word."
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

Deep Sleeper gives the character the ability to filter what they hear and file it under "not important" therefore not a problem for sleep. Combat Reflexes enhances the ability to distinguish between "not important" and "important". The combination of the two produces the cinematic man of action who is always instantly ready for action from a sound sleep
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:20 PM   #5
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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Deep Sleeper gives the character the ability to filter what they hear and file it under "not important" therefore not a problem for sleep. Combat Reflexes enhances the ability to distinguish between "not important" and "important". The combination of the two produces the cinematic man of action who is always instantly ready for action from a sound sleep
I like that idea, but the people I know who are deep sleepers are deeply asleep no-mater what kind of disturbance it is. This is an advantage when it's something trivial and a disadvantage when it's important. Would that be a 0 point feature? -2 on perception rolls to notice disturbances when asleep (good or bad)?
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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I like that idea, but the people I know who are deep sleepers are deeply asleep no-mater what kind of disturbance it is. This is an advantage when it's something trivial and a disadvantage when it's important. Would that be a 0 point feature? -2 on perception rolls to notice disturbances when asleep (good or bad)?
It's like having to sleep with earplugs, whether you're safe at home or not. Which definitely is a mixed blessing. EDIT: Hard Of Hearing, Only When Asleep, would be something like -80%, for -4 to hearing rolls, so yeah, -2 sounds right for a quirk. If it's only -2, but you get the other benefits of Deep sleeper, I'd probably call that a 0 point feature, sure.

The low cost of the initial perk isn't because it's a big advantage being balanced out by the potential to be eaten by gnolls because you slept through them ambushing your camp guard, it's because not loosing sleep because the ceiling fan is squeaky is kind of trivial - mostly because it can be fixed with some wax and wool or cotton to make earplugs, for pennies, at just about any TL past perhaps 0.

A whole perk for "Accessory: Earplugs, only when sleeping" would DEFINITELY be overcharging, so you need something else thrown in to make it better.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
(see also the disad Honesty which has nothing to do with telling the truth or keeping your word ;)
An Honest person in English has very little to do with telling the truth, but NOT cheating the system. and Honest Merchant is not one the believe in "caveat emperor" not that they have problem telling socially convent falsehoods to you.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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A whole perk for "Accessory: Earplugs, only when sleeping" would DEFINITELY be overcharging, so you need something else thrown in to make it better.
It's closer to Immunity: Fatigue due to low-quality sleep. You can sleep through a rave going on next door, or on a storm-tossed ship, or in a steaming tropical jungle. Nothing but "the worst conditions" will make you lose FP because of lost or poor-quality sleep.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:52 AM   #9
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
An Honest person in English has very little to do with telling the truth, but NOT cheating the system. and Honest Merchant is not one the believe in "caveat emperor" not that they have problem telling socially convent falsehoods to you.
In american english, honest means not telling lies AND generally obeying social and legal mores.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Deep Sleeper and Combat Reflexes

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Originally Posted by Grouchy Chris View Post
Combat Reflexes gives you "+6 on all IQ rolls to wake up" (B43). But if you have Deep Sleeper, then "you get an IQ roll to notice disturbances and awaken, just like anyone else; success is automatic if you have Combat Reflexes" (B101).

So, if you have Combat Reflexes, Deep Sleeper means you wake up more easily? How does that make sense?

Or, if this is an error, what should be the rule?
I'd say the part in Deep Sleeper means you have to make an IQ roll to notice disturbances that people without Deep Sleeper WOULDN'T have to roll for. Combat Reflexes lets you ignore this drawback.
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