05-30-2013, 11:20 AM | #71 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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05-30-2013, 11:37 AM | #72 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
Which brings up the fact that many MD's likely have 12's in physiology and 11's in biology. If we treat medical school like "any other four year degree", at least give them credit for the four year degree they had previously.
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05-30-2013, 11:47 AM | #73 |
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
I think part of the problem with this whole discussion is that there is often a substantial disconnect in most careers between the skills at graduation/certification and after a decade or two of practice. MD's finishing their residency are likely far MORE skilled in certain areas than they are ten years later, when they have perhaps specialized a bit more and farmed certain tasks out to residents and nurses.
I always think in terms of that graduation/certification moment because I think it is easier and more consistent to start from there and alter it based on a career path than it is to assume a career path and ignore the foundation that may have led to alternatives. For easier playability GURPS tends to focus on the mid-career professional, as they are more representative of the average - but this tends to ignore (and obfuscate) the many many variations. |
05-30-2013, 12:24 PM | #74 | |
Join Date: May 2010
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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05-31-2013, 01:04 AM | #75 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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Yes, I understand the argument that people who test well, well, test well. But (at least in my general field- the sciences) you also have to know the material. If you're a "good test taker" but don't know the material, then you will fail. Absolutely. Most people who truly shine on tests do so via obsessive study and knowing the material cold. Granted, you can know the theory better than anyone else on Earth and still suck at taking a history or otherwise interacting with patients. Medical school doesn't each that- supposedly you pick it up in residency. This has been recognized as An Problem, and the powers that be are trying to change how it is taught. But that's all a different issue. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the position that academic achievement is meaningless is utter crap. It's just as false as most other populist sentiments. Who wants Mike the Master Mason designing their 100-story skyscraper? Mike's a great guy, and very skilled, but he's no civil engineer. And I don't want Cyrus the Civil Engineer putting in my fireplace, either... Last edited by acrosome; 05-31-2013 at 01:08 AM. |
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05-31-2013, 01:59 AM | #76 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
I don't know about that. I seem to know more about a lot of things than most people that haven't been trying to get a BS for twenty years (well, it will be twenty in September). I definitely seem to know more general Biology than my Primary Care Physician...
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05-31-2013, 05:53 AM | #77 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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All I'm saying is that, taken literally, this is a ridiculous statement: Quote:
Which I interpreted as something like "There is absolutely no relationship between a persons intelligence or knowledge base and the degree to which they excell academically. People who excell academically are just good at taking tests and otherwise gaming the system." Which is hogwash. So, if that's not what you meant then what did you mean? One must have a knowledge base to succeed in academics. Yes, clearly some are for instance better test-takers than others, but you aren't going to "strategize" your way into an A if you know little or nothing about the subject, unless one is taking tests of a seriously flawed design. (I.e. Who deveolped the first safe thyroidectomy? A- Puppies, B-Existentialism, or C-Dr. Theodore Kocher?) Hmm- how would one design a test to evaluate someone's test-taking acumen that didn't involve some sort of knowledge base? Interesting thought... But the things you learn in "test-taking strategy" courses are only good for a few points here and there, IMO. Are there tools in academia? Sure- but they're still tools who know quite a bit. And, yes, there are "nutty professors" wandering around. And intelligent and accomplished people can have some very wingnut beliefs. But academic performance is nonetheless a good metric. Not perfect, because no metric is, but good. Also, am I saying that anyone without a master's degree is an imecile? Clearly not! Getting a degree is just a way to prove- to a certain degree of confidence- a certian degree of knowledge in a subject area. So, does having a master's degree mean that you a world expert in everything? Pfft. But you have proven some knowledge of your field. I.e. you have been measured, to use your phraseology. Someone with a master's in biochemistry has proven that he understands the Krebs Cycle. Whether he retains that is another matter. Can an underachieving high-school dropout be more "intelligent" or "learned" than the guy with the master's? Yes. Especially if you're not concerned with the breadth of his knowledge and less about the depth in the other guy's master's area. But he likely hasn't proven it. And, then there are just people who are geniuses or savants. I'm sure, for instance, that there is some hacker out there who has never taken a college course in his life but knows more about system administration than someone who just decided to get a comsci bachelors because he thought it would make for a decent career but who really doesn't have any interest in it nor talent for it. Looked at another way- you have a group of ten people with comsci degrees and ten without. Knowing nothing else about them, from which pool would you rather randomly pick someone to run your server? Aha, see- the academic "measuring" does mean something, doesn't it? Anyway, even if you have been failing classes (I have no idea why it's taking you 20 years, and will not speculate) you're still making the error of normalizing yourself. You may not be normal. So, yes, I'll stand by my statement that in general those who get high scores deserve them- that grades are not distributed in a pseudorandom manner. Well, except in the humanities, of course... :P I'd say that your claim to have better biology knowledge than your doc is also specious to the point. Clearly. First, N=1 is a bad data set. More importantly, we can't all be experts at everything. (Except in GURPS: Black Ops, of course.) You're always going to be able to find something you know more about than any other random person- especially since I know you to be a typical GURPS forums trivia-sponge. P.S- Medical school doesn't have a biology class, though most do have two semesters of biology as an admission requirement, and considering what my freshman bio was like it isn't surprising that your doc doesn't know what a pinniped is. Freshman bio is basic stuff- cells, etc. What was his bachelors degree? I had a guy in my medical school class who was a violin major (and played professionally before deciding to go to med school). How much general biology do you suppose he knows? Last edited by acrosome; 05-31-2013 at 06:31 AM. |
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05-31-2013, 08:51 AM | #78 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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05-31-2013, 09:36 AM | #79 | |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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I passed my exam on the first attempt, with an unadjusted grade of 84%, by playing the game. People I knew who actually tried to study everything failed and had to resubmit, as did those who focused on just their own field. Most of the former group eventually specialized a little more and passed, while most of the latter group broadened their focus some and also passed. As for me, playing that game is certainly one of the factors that contributed to me graduating with a good knowledge of mathematical physics, particle physics, and quantum physics, at best an undergraduate-level grasp of classical mechanics, electrodynamics, nuclear physics, relativity, and solid-state physics, and no understanding at all of acoustics, astrophysics, fluid dynamics, geophysics, or optics save for where that overlapped the stuff I was good at.
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05-31-2013, 09:48 AM | #80 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: What level Physician skill should an MD have?
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