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Old 01-03-2022, 11:42 AM   #11
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

I do see a problem.

First, that fire is useful against lycanthropes of all kind (and other brutish animals) doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that a reptile lycanthrope does enormous amounts of damage. 4d+6 is very high. That's an average 20pts, so one hit kills pretty damned near any humanoid. It has a better than 50/50 chance of taking down a ST 15 character in full plate in one blow.

I'd definitely adjust that or be very, very careful how I introduce such a beasty. The 7 hex snapping turtle has a 4d+2 attack and an ST 51 character has a 4d+1 attack. A petard does 6d within 3MH, but I don't use a lot of them either.

Of course, whether the party knows the foe they're up against can make a difference. But even then, not too many PCs can surround a were-lizard with fire as Henry suggests.
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Old 01-03-2022, 11:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

I wouldn't go up against such a creature while wearing plate armor as that would give him the MA advantage needed to attempt to initiate HTH.

Note that this is a very experienced reptile man who now gets the -4 modifier on almost all reaction rolls. (There is only one nearby Reptile Man and only one nearby Reptile Man Lycanthrope...)

So this 41st adventuring session is very very likely to be his last one, unless the party goblin witch can cure him ASAP!
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Old 01-03-2022, 11:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

Since lycanthopy (and vampirism) in TFT is the result of a disease not a magical curse, I think our GM back-in-the-day dealt with this particular issue by ruling the micro-organisms only effect mammals in spite of the actual text to the contrary.

TBH, I think he didn't want me getting evil ideas for my own reptile-man character, Argas.
;)
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Old 01-03-2022, 11:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

I think the problem is that were-dinosausars are bad news and any sane person should to stay away from them.

I might knock a few dice off their damage to compensate for them being a corner case in the rules, but really, there is life outside the arena, and it's not fair.
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Old 01-03-2022, 11:36 PM   #15
Shaira
 
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

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Originally Posted by tomc View Post
I think the problem is that were-dinosausars are bad news and any sane person should to stay away from them.
I'm inclined to agree. 4d+8 damage is pretty catastrophic, but it's uniquely for were-dino attacks in hth, which as everyone has pointed out are subject to certain constraints.

What it does do, is make were-dinos extremely notable in the rules, and therefore in Cidri, as being mega-bad-asses. They become a stand-out part of the game world in a way I hadn't personally realised yesterday - there'll be legends of were-dinos, and I'm wondering if "Summon Were-Dino" isn't a thing, and if not why not. I'm cool with that, but it was a bit of a surprise. 😊😁

Cheers,

Sarah
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Old 01-04-2022, 12:16 AM   #16
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

A were-dino might easily be considered roughly equivalent to a juvenile t-rex, in which case the damage would indeed be pretty fierce.

A unique fossil find was only recently made public. It was a double find: a complete juvenile t-rex skeleton locked in combat with an adult triceratops skeleton. It was apparent from the wounds on both and the position of the remains that the animals had killed each other in a fight to the death.

What's relevant here is that the triceratops looks to be several times larger than the young t-rex! Sure the fight was a tie, but what's remarkable is the smaller t-rex managed to kill the more massive dino at all before succumbing to it's own wounds. In TFT terms it must have been doling out 4d6+ damage. The comparison to the were-reptile man besting a 14-hex dragon wouldn't be far off.
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Old 01-04-2022, 02:01 AM   #17
Shaira
 
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
A were-dino might easily be considered roughly equivalent to a juvenile t-rex, in which case the damage would indeed be pretty fierce.

A unique fossil find was only recently made public. It was a double find: a complete juvenile t-rex skeleton locked in combat with an adult triceratops skeleton. It was apparent from the wounds on both and the position of the remains that the animals had killed each other in a fight to the death.

What's relevant here is that the triceratops looks to be several times larger than the young t-rex! Sure the fight was a tie, but what's remarkable is the smaller t-rex managed to kill the more massive dino at all before succumbing to it's own wounds. In TFT terms it must have been doling out 4d6+ damage. The comparison to the were-reptile man besting a 14-hex dragon wouldn't be far off.
That's very cool. And more support for giving were-dinos a significant place in Cidri's mythos. I'm going to try and think of a cool name for them in my campaign. Were-dinos ain't terrifying me one bit. :D ;-)
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Old 01-04-2022, 05:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

If we take the were-dino literally, then why would it stay one-hex?

Typical ST 12, DX 11, IQ 9 Reptile Man then becomes something like:
Were-dino, 2-hex creature
ST 24, DX 8, IQ 6
Attacks: Bite (2d), Tail (1d), and trample.
Thickened scales stop 2 hits, and regenerates all except silver, fire and acid attacks.

The tail can be used against all rear hexes as separate attacks at full DX (-4 DX if combined with a bite on the same turn), and all struck must roll to retain their footing as if hit by a shield rush.
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Old 01-04-2022, 06:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
If we take the were-dino literally, then why would it stay one-hex?

Typical ST 12, DX 11, IQ 9 Reptile Man then becomes something like:
Were-dino, 2-hex creature
ST 24, DX 8, IQ 6
Attacks: Bite (2d), Tail (1d), and trample.
Thickened scales stop 2 hits, and regenerates all except silver, fire and acid attacks.

The tail can be used against all rear hexes as separate attacks at full DX (-4 DX if combined with a bite on the same turn), and all struck must roll to retain their footing as if hit by a shield rush.
Stuff like this is what TFT is all about. It's about taking the existing rules, applying them in ways that aren't specifically referenced, and resulting in executable die roll that can render somewhat random results.

Focus on combat resolution is TFT's strongest point. I remember that GURPS did the same thing but it never clicked with me.

Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 01-04-2022 at 06:34 AM.
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Old 01-09-2022, 04:27 PM   #20
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Reptile Men Lycanthropes

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Originally Posted by Shaira View Post
... Let's take an NPC Reptile Man. ST 18, DX 10, IQ 10. According to the RAW he does 1d+3 bare-handed damage in melee, including his +2 damage bonus for reptile man claws.
Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaira View Post
According to ITLp79, in HTH combat he does "double the HTH damage that a human of equivalent strength would". So, a human of ST 18 would do 1d+2 damage in HTH combat. Now it's unclear whether we add the +2 damage bonus for the Reptile Man's claws before or after the doubling, but in HTH combat our ST 18 Reptile Man does either 2d+6 or 2d+8 damage.
I don't think you add +2 to the HTH damage. It's the human HTH damage, doubled, so 2d+4. I think the +2 is for unarmed attacks outside of HTH.

I can see how it can be read as also applying to HTH damage. If I agreed, I'd certainly not double it, since the doubling says it is about the human HTH damage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaira View Post
So then I was looking at statting up a Reptile Man lycanthrope (a "were-dinosaur" - ITL p83). According to the write-up, a lycanthrope's ST doubles when in were-form. Our Were-Dinosaur has ST36, DX 7, IQ 6.

In normal melee combat, that Were-Dinosaur does 2d+3 bare-handed damage, including his +2 damage bonus for reptile man claws. In HTH, depending on when you add the +2 damage bonus, he does double normal HTH damage, so either 4d+6 or 4d+8 damage. In HTH, he also gets a +4 to his DX, which is bumped to DX 11.
As above, I'd say 4d+4.

But yeah, that's a lot. Maybe it should be, for a strong were-reptile-man. But, maybe not that much. It's of course a result of stacking multiple mechanics that are trying to be simple, including the point on the unarmed damage table where it jumps from 1d+3 to 2d+1 at ST 31. Most creatures with ST 30+ are bears or giants or something, so if I felt 4d+4 was too much for a were-reptile-man, I might downgrade the "HTH damage that a human of equivalent strength" value, since THERE ARE NO HUMANS OF ST 31+. So, one might either decide there is some maximum human ST, and that were reptile men with very high ST therefore only do double the HTH damage of the strongest actual humans, so maybe limit that to 1d+3 x 2 = 2d+6. Or, maybe just not allow the jump to 2d+1 base damage, instead saying that for this purpose, the jump in the ST 31 bracket is from 1d+3 to 1d+4, so +1 for HTH, so that'd be 2d+10 . . . which is still huge.

Yeah, so I'm thinking I (personally) like 2d+6 for maximum reptile-man HTH damage.

Last edited by Skarg; 01-09-2022 at 04:32 PM.
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