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Old 10-14-2016, 02:49 AM   #11
Tim Kauffman
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Poison Pill. 1 trick, 15 VP. The Stealth LGEV may self-destruct. Treat this as a cruise missile detonation, but add 2 hexes distance to each unit when calculating the attack odds. See section 10.04 in Ogre Designer's Edition. A crater is formed in the hex of detonation as described in section 10.04.

Nice. I can see this small unit doing this much damage because it's cutting edge Combine tech.

Zombies. 1 trick, 10 VP. The Ninja has four drone channels instead of just one. Each of these channels is subject the drone rules described above. A Ninja may actively control up to four units at one time.

FanMade idea ALERT: just allow the NINJA to purchase how many they want to control individually, say 2 or 3 VP per unit with a maximum of ?

Puppet Master. 2 tricks, 25 VP. Using a drone channel and harsh EW, a Ninja may forcibly take control of an enemy unit. To take control of an enemy unit, a Ninja must be within 6 hexes of the target unit. On a roll of a 6, the Ninja has successfully burned through the unit's countermeasures and taken control of the unit. If a Ninja is attempting to take control of a disabled unit, it succeeds on a roll of a 5 or 6. This attempt is made at the very end of the Ninja's turn, immediately prior to the other player's turn beginning.

Once under control of the Ninja, the enslaved unit may attempt to break free by rolling a 6 during the Recovery Phase. It adds one to its roll for each additional turn it is enslaved as long as it's not disabled. Disabled, enslaved units may only break free on a roll of a natural 6. If it fails to break free, that unit is controlled by Ninja during the enemies turn. The Ninja moves this unit prior to the other enemy units moving during the Movement Phase; fires this unit prior to the other enemy units firing during the Firing Phase; and if it is a GEV, moves it prior to any other enemy GEVs moving during the 2nd Movement Phase. Once enslaved, the controlled unit need not stay within six hexes of the Ninja for the Ninja to maintain control.

A Ninja with both the Zombies and Puppet Master tricks may control up to four enemy units at one time. A Ninja may only attempt to gain control of one unit per turn but may attempt to add additional units on subsequent turns.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

FanMade idea ALERT: Allow the NINJA to use "channels" as modifiers to increase their chance of success and as the number of enemies they can attempt to enslave. For example, the NINJA has 4 channels and uses one to attack an enemy unit and the other three as a + 3 modifier, so it needs a 4, 5, or 6 for success. For example, the NINJA uses three to attack three enemy units and the other one as a + 1 modifier, so it needs a 5 or 6 for each of those three enslavement attacks.


Light Artillery Drones. 1 trick, 20 VP. For every trick expended, the Ninja may carry three Light Artillery Drones (LADs). It has Attack 2, Range 8, Defense 1, and Movement 0. However, each can be broken down into a single cargo pallet for transport and set up quickly:

Turn 1: Unloading. All the Ninja needs to do is remain in one place for a turn. Place the LAD pallet beside the Ninja.
Turn 2: The LAD unpacks itself, sets itself up, and runs diagnostics. Replace the pallet counter with the regular LAD counter. It may be targeted, but may not attack. The Ninja may move away normally.
Turn 3: The LAD can fire.

Small, stealthy, and powered down, they are very hard to detect. The defender will not detect a collapsed LAD until it starts to set up, or until one of his units comes within 1 hex. The Ninja player should write down the hex within which an LAD is dropped off if it is not activated immediately.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Caltrops. 1 trick, 10 VP. The Ninja can place up to a dozen mines. Only one mine may be placed per turn, but the Ninja does not need to be immobile to place a mine. Whenever a mine is placed, the Ninja layer should write down the number of the hex that is mined, and, if necessary, whether it is on a road/rail or not. See section 13.04 in Ogre Designer's Edition for more on mines in Ogre.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Troll. 1 trick, 5 VP. The Ninja has three special 'bridge-buster' charges, any one of which may be dropped on a bridge for later detonation. The player makes note of the bridge with a Troll charge and may announce the detonation at any time of their choosing, including during the enemies turn. Please see section 13.02 in Ogre Designer's Edition for details on bridge destruction. This charge may be dropped on a road as well, cutting the road when detonated.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Extra Ghost. 1 trick, 10 VP. The Ninja has two additional ghosts available to it. It still may only have no more than two operating at one time.

See my previously mentioned FanMade suggestion.


Smoke Cloud. 1 trick, 15 VP. Not a literal smoke cloud, but rather a load of electronic razzle-dazzle. It can be deployed instantly, even as a response to enemy fire during the enemies turn, to any hex within 5 of the Ninja. The hex of effect subtracts 2 from every die roll made to attack a friendly unit there. All adjacent hexes subtract 1. This effect lasts until the end of the current enemy turn, or the next turn if it starts on the Ninja's turn. The enemy does not know that the smoke cloud exists until it affects his roll, so the Ninja player will have to get into the habit of writing notes.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Cloak. 2 tricks, 25 VP. Note: This trick requires a degree of trust between the players, and some record-keeping for movement.

The Ninja is not placed on the board at all until it is within 5 hexes of an enemy unit, or until it fires, drops another unit, hits a mine, or uses any other trick that would reasonably reveal it within the bounds of the scenario – discuss this first.

The Ninja CAN create ghosts while it is, itself, cloaked. In this circumstance the ghost Ninja moves off as a separate unit and the cloaked actual Ninja continues with its hidden movement. The usual rules apply for detecting a ghost, etc.

The Ninja can uncloak at any time. It may also re-cloak at the beginning of its turn provided it is not within 5 hexes of an enemy unit when it does so.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Zen Archer. 2 tricks, 20 VP. This trick leverages the Ninja's awesome electronics into an offensive role. The Ninja has +1 range on its main and secondary batteries.

Similar to the FanMade NINJA V4 that has +1 ranged Secondaries...but also allowing the Mains to have +1 is better!:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...7650555669260/

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.


Berserker I. 1 trick, 5 VP. The attack strength of the Ninja's AP weapons is doubled.

Berserker II. 1 trick, 5 VP. The range of the Ninja's AP weapons is doubled.

Berserker III. 1 trick, 15 VP. Both the attack strength and the range of the Ninja's AP weapons are doubled.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character. However, by doubling the attack strength, it means those AP Guns are doing more damage now...which may mean they are now able to attack units they currently cannot, units other than just Infantry that have lighter armor on the unit scale of armor toughness.

FanMade idea ALERT: Here is a FanMade suggestion from another thread having them OGRE with Descartes Packages AP Guns, but this would work well for the new NINJA Berserker AP Guns as another Trick:

NINJA Berserker AP Guns can make attacks on GEV units, Infantry, Trucks, LADs or any other D0 or D1 unit.
Such attacks can only DISABLE these non-Infantry targets, thus, Xs are treated as Ds, Ds are treated as Ds, and NEs are treated as NEs.
Infantry will be reduced as usual and Ds still count as Xs for them.

As 7.05.1 AP weapons rules except: "Berserker AP Guns may fire at the same GEV units, Infantry, Trucks, LADs or any other D0 or D1 unit more than once per turn".

Attacker and Defender roll 2 OGRE DE D6 for this. The highest result attacks first. If the lower result unit is not DISABLED or Xed after this attack, it may then attack. Ties go to the Defender. (This may be too much, but I think it is worth the extra effort because it is allowing a chance the defender may get to attack first, instead of them just suffering automatic attacks. It creates a nice OGREish tension to the battle. This 2 D6 roll is modified as follows:

OGRE Mark 1 = +1
OGRE MARK 2 = +2
OGRE MARK 3 = +3
OGRE MARK 4 = +4
OGRE MARK 5 = +5
OGRE MARK 6 = +6
OGRE Mark 7 = +7 ;)

NINJA = +???

All units in the same Stack are rolled for as if they were a single unit, and only eligible units within the Stack are effected by the NINJA Berserker AP Gun rules.

NINJA Berserker AP Guns which have not yet fired are usable for the remainder of the turn and you can use a # Token to show how many are left.

Attacking units that go first and have secondary movement may, after making their attack, move their secondary movement.

This would really compliment the NINJA as it's role as a stealthy raider. Keep in mind attacks from NINJA Berserker AP Guns can only ever DISABLE a unit. If you allow the rule where the NINJA can attack the same target with more than one Berserker AP Guns attack, it would give the player options to either go for more Disables or fewer Disables and more Xs, because a second Disable Xs the unit.
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Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 10-28-2016 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 10-14-2016, 02:50 AM   #12
Tim Kauffman
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Laser Beam. 3 tricks, 40 VP. This is essentially a mobile laser turret (see section 12.02 in Ogre Designer's Edition). All rules applicable to a standard laser turret apply here as well. There is a laser array mounted on the Ninja that is normally retracted within the Ninja until deployed for use. The Ninja must deploy the array at least one turn prior to using the laser. Once deployed, the array may be targeted by external attacks. The laser array has a defense of 4 and is immune to 'D' results in the same manner as all other Ogre weapons. The Ninja may retract the array as well. Retracting the array takes one full turn, and the laser may not fire that turn. It is fully retracted at the start of the next turn. (In other words, the enemy has one more chance to fire on it.)

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character. The OGRE operated Laser looks like it's going official. :) We have them in the upcoming NIGHTFALL Supplement and some FanMade as well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...7656167698856/

FanMade idea ALERT: I would allow this the following additional ability because it is operated by an OGRE and would be superior to a crew-mounted Laser: They function as a standard Laser but can also fire every turn if they attacked OGRE Missiles or not.


Missile Painting. 1 trick, 5 VP. The Ninja may paint any missile (cruise or Ogre) within 10 hexes. Any unit that attempts to intercept a painted missile adds 2 to their roll.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Cruise Missile Jammer. 1 trick, 20 VP. Through heavy use of a specialized jammer, a Ninja can destroy any Cruise Missiles within a 10 hex radius. Any affected CM travels for (1d+2 hexes) in a random direction, then crashes, with a 50% chance of exploding on impact.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Flash-Bang. 1 trick, 15 VP. A focused EMP is directed in a wedge 5 hexes out from the Ninja. This wedge totals five hexes extended out from an adjacent pair of hexes next to the Ninja. Each unit within this triangle of hexes is disabled on a roll of 4 or greater on one die. Ogres and infantry are unaffected. Units disabled by an EMP recover normally. Units that are already disabled, and fail the roll, are considered destroyed – their electronics are useless for the duration of the battle! Units that enter the area of effect at a later time are not affected.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Anti-Ogre Jammer I. 1 trick, 5 VP. This jammer can reduce the attack strength of any Ogre missile by 1 if either the firer or the target is within a 10 hex radius.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Anti-Ogre Jammer II. 1 trick, 5 VP. This jammer can reduce the attack range of any Ogre missile by 1 if either the firer or the target is within a 10 hex radius.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Anti-Ogre Jammer III. 1 trick, 15 VP. This jammer can reduce the attack strength AND range of any Ogre missile by 1 if either the firer or the target are within a 10 hex radius.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Night Fog. 1 trick, 10 VP. This jammer can prevent any unit within a 5 hex radius from combining its fire with any other unit. Infantry may still combine into platoons. Enemy Ogres may still combine the fire of any of its own weapons.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

FanMade idea ALERT: I'd like to have this put into three different Tricks.

NIGHT FOG A. 1 Trick, ? VP. This jammer can prevent any attacks on the NINJA form being combined attacks.

NIGHT FOG B. 1 Trick, ? VP per hex range. This jammer can prevent any units within a 1-6? hex radius of the NINJA from being combined attacked.

NIGHT FOG C. 1 Trick, ? VP per hex range. This jammer can prevent any unit within a 1-6? hex radius of the NINJA from combining its fire with any other unit. Infantry may still combine fire as platoons. Enemy Ogres may NOT combine the fire of any of its own weapons.

Morning Mist. 1 Trick, ? VP per hex range. This jammer causes any unit targeting the Ninja within units within 1-6? hex radius of the NINJA to have a harder time to hit it on the CRT. Subtract 1 from the die roll of any attack made against a Ninja with this trick, except attacks by infantry in overruns.

Does this effect a Cruise Missile attack?


Extra Arrows. 1 trick, 5 VP. For every trick expended the Ninja may carry an additional two internal missiles. These additional missiles may be modified the same as any other internal missile (see below).

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

The Ninja's Quiver

A Ninja may swap internal missiles for mission-specific ordinance. Each of these missiles has a point cost and replaces one internal missile. The specialized missile rack may still fire only one missile per turn, whether standard or special. Only internal missiles have the extra engineering and launch machinery required to support these variations; external missiles are always the standard version.

As the Ninja may have a varying missile load, no missile sits in the rack at any given time. The Ninja is capable of loading and firing a missile in the same turn, as it determines which missile it wants to fire. The destruction of the missile rack does not destroy any of the missiles for VP determination, although they still can't be fired without the rack.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Stealth Missile. 15 VP. A Stealth Missile is treated as a normal Ogre missile but may be fired from a cloaked Ninja without causing the Ninja to reveal itself.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Smoke Cloud Missile. 15 VP. The Smoke Cloud missile has the same effect as the Smoke Cloud trick. Range 10 hexes.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Recon By Fire Missile. 15 VP. An RBF missile is treated like a normal missile except it does no damage to a target. It scouts everything in the target hex and all adjacent hexes as thoroughly as if the Ninja itself were there. Range 15 hexes.

Seems too expensive for a one and done, and not at it's full potential.

FanMade idea ALERT: Maybe allowing it to scout every hex it flies over AND all adjacent hexes would suit this better, this way, the NINJA can use this to find a clear path for itself to move through?


Recon By Fire – Stealth Missile. 25 VP. The same as an RBF missile, but may be fired from a cloaked Ninja, and does not dispel any ghosts when fired from a Ninja with ghosts operating. Range 10 hexes.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Shuriken. 10 VP. The Ninja may replace any one of its internal missiles with one that has +1 range. Otherwise, it is the same as a regular Ogre missile. Just a nasty surprise.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Poisoned Shuriken. 20 VP. The same as a Shuriken, but +1 range and +2 attack strength. A really nasty surprise.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Viper Missile. 10 VP. The missile may split into two separate warheads after firing, capable of attacking two different targets within range, each warhead having an attack strength of 3. Both warheads may target the same unit as two separate attacks at strength 3.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Anti-Laser Missile. 10 VP. This missile acts as a normal Ogre missile, except any laser attempting to shoot down this missile must roll an 11 or above to succeed (see section 12.05 in Ogre Designer's Edition).

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

Wild Weasel. 20 VP. This missile specifically targets jammers and radars. It does double damage to these structures. This bonus is in addition to any other bonuses listed in section 11.04 in Ogre Designer's Edition. A Wild Weasel is also +1 to hit against any other Ninja due to the ECM and ECCM emitted from that Ninja. It is treated as a regular missile for all other applications including attacks against any other target.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

FASCAM Missile. 10 VP. This missile allows a Ninja to place three mines remotely. All three mines are placed in the target hex. If there is a road or rail in the hex, the Ninja player rolls one die for each mine; on a 1 or 2, it is to be considered on the road or rail. Otherwise, it is in the hex but not on the road/rail. The mines are considered active on the next turn. (See section 12.05 in Ogre Designer‚€™s Edition for more on mines). Range 10 hexes.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.

FanMade idea ALERT: I suggest keeping this simple and just allowing the NINJA player to have the option of the mine placement without the dice roll.


Call Home, ET. 15 VP. This missile is for use in a scenario where a jamscreen or other electronic interference is preventing the Ninja from communicating its findings to HQ. A CHET missile is launched into the stratosphere to narrowcast its data payload.

Super duper cool. Stuff like this will give the NINJA character.
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Last edited by Tim Kauffman; 10-28-2016 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 10-14-2016, 02:54 AM   #13
Tim Kauffman
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf90 View Post
There is a lot to take in here, and some of the proposed abilities may not (will not) make it into the final design. But I'd like everyone to play with it, and see which of the abilities work well, and which don't. I know some of you who have seen it in pretest are not a fan; it IS a major departure from the past overly simplistic versions. But just as the Vulcan and Combat Engineering has received a major overhaul, so too has the Ninja.

D.
Everyone wins here because you can still play a NINJA as it was originally iterated because those rules are now separate abilities you can purchase...this in fact is a great example of rules that compliment something. Well done.

Night Fog. 1 trick, 10 VP. This jammer can prevent any unit within a 5 hex radius from combining its fire with any other unit. Infantry may still combine into platoons. Enemy Ogres may still combine the fire of any of its own weapons.

Morning Mist. 1 trick, 10 VP. This jammer causes any unit targeting the Ninja within a 5 hex radius to have a harder time to hit it on the CRT. Subtract 1 from the die roll of any attack made against a Ninja with this trick, except attacks by infantry in overruns.

Thanks Drew and SJGs for all the ongoing OGRE stuff!

Tip of the hat to EVERYONE who kicked ideas around in the other NINJA thread...seriously
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Old 10-15-2016, 01:55 PM   #14
Tim Kauffman
 
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

...UPDATE...I reconsidered some of my previous entries on the subject and edited them accordingly, so there are some changes to some of my first thoughts, especially the ghosts and remote controlling ability. I also added some FanMade suggestions for some things. ;)

In the interest of staying on topic in this new Ninja Feedback Forum Thread and continuing to explore the NINJA and OGREverse stealth technology,
I am posting some new FanMade ideas there that are not as topic specific to this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=38441
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Old 10-16-2016, 05:37 AM   #15
eltf177
 
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

On the SHINOBI, what is the LRS?
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by eltf177 View Post
On the SHINOBI, what is the LRS?
I believe that might be one of mine.

LRS = Long Range Salvo, 2/5 D1, 1-shot.

Compare/Contrast with:

RB = Rocket Battery, 3/4 D2 (like a MSL tank)
RS = Rocket Salvo, 3/4 D1, 1-shot (like a HWT infantry)
LRM = Long Range Missile, 2/5 D2 (a RB variant)
LRS = Long Range Salvo, 2/5 D1, 1-shot

You can get them all (and much more) in this shameless plug:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Ogre_Construction.pdf (96.1 KB, 9 views)
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Old 10-16-2016, 05:07 PM   #17
eltf177
 
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

I'm thinking it's the Nihon Long-Range Secondary Battery...
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Call me a wet blanket or an old fuddy-duddy or whatever, but all these options take the game in a direction that doesn't interest me. Ogre has always been a nice, simple game that I could play once or twice pretty quickly. Ye olde Bag o' Tricks runs counter to the game I like. A plain old -1 to hit worked for me. Everything else seems to add bookkeeping and fiddly bits to my simple game.

Feel free to ignore me, though. I'm sure (evidence above) that other folks like these ideas.
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:25 PM   #19
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzardo View Post
Call me a wet blanket or an old fuddy-duddy or whatever, but all these options take the game in a direction that doesn't interest me. Ogre has always been a nice, simple game that I could play once or twice pretty quickly. Ye olde Bag o' Tricks runs counter to the game I like. A plain old -1 to hit worked for me. Everything else seems to add bookkeeping and fiddly bits to my simple game.

Feel free to ignore me, though. I'm sure (evidence above) that other folks like these ideas.
I think there's a big potential for analysis paralysis with these rules, and while I appreciate some options this menu may be too long.

Also I wonder why many of these are only options for Ninja, why can't the missile variants in particular be able to replace Rattlers on all Combine Ogres?
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Old 10-16-2016, 08:44 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzardo View Post
Call me a wet blanket or an old fuddy-duddy or whatever, but all these options take the game in a direction that doesn't interest me. Ogre has always been a nice, simple game that I could play once or twice pretty quickly. Ye olde Bag o' Tricks runs counter to the game I like. A plain old -1 to hit worked for me. Everything else seems to add bookkeeping and fiddly bits to my simple game.

Feel free to ignore me, though. I'm sure (evidence above) that other folks like these ideas.
I look at all this as adding more variety, rather than complexity. Most scenarios aren't going to use more than one or two of these concepts at once. (Having said that, I expect lots of folks are contemplating "Exercise K" with 3 Ninjas per side.)

It sometimes amazes me how much has already been fit into the framework of a fairly simple game, and how well it works.
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