04-28-2022, 06:02 PM | #61 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
They are. What they aren't doing is bouncing back and forward every second.
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04-28-2022, 06:11 PM | #62 | |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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In both linked videos you see this again and again for both armed and unarmed combat. |
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04-28-2022, 11:00 PM | #63 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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There are two different ways to dodge in his method: with or without footwork. As there are two different ways to dodge in GURPS: with or without step. When you step backward, this is named a dodge with retreat and you get a +3 bonus. You don't consider that every dodge makes the character move one hexe* backward or to the side, do you? ___ * Actually, as noted by Sir Pudding, since you are in close combat (i.e. not in the middle of the hexe) you don't move one hexe backward but just a fraction of it. Last edited by Gollum; 04-28-2022 at 11:56 PM. |
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04-28-2022, 11:32 PM | #64 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
I'm suddenly wondering ... The problem may come from the fact that it is named "retreat", as many problems from reality checks with IQ come from the fact that GURPS intelligence is not just real IQ.
Indeed, what we name retreat in reality (fleeing away from the attack) is much more all-out defense (or even all-out defense with retreat, +5!) than what GURPS names the retreat option. Last edited by Gollum; 04-28-2022 at 11:35 PM. |
04-29-2022, 01:10 AM | #65 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
You do realize that's a video about footwork? It's not always obvious what he's going with his feet because the camera sometimes cuts it off, but he's stepping all the time.
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04-29-2022, 01:23 AM | #66 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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I watched many other videos when you see him dodging a few blows without stepping at all. Mike Tison was very good at ducking below blows too. The difference may appear more obviously with that video: https://youtu.be/d_kbC36JESs Last edited by Gollum; 04-29-2022 at 01:41 AM. |
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04-29-2022, 02:52 AM | #67 | |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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Do characters stand like rockem sockem robots during normal fight? Or are we to envision this same back and forth dancing for normal fights too? After all, they're in a big old yard hex with plenty of room to spare. This is just normal fighting, noone in here retreats. In boxing you don't have to yield the advance of Tyson, you can just stand there if he goes forward, in fact, isn't that what Buster Douglas did to him? Catch him all the time in a clinch? When Tyson and co dance around, then they're just doing normal boxing fighting. It's not a special feature of boxing. It's part of spacing which boxing is tied to, without it, you can't box. Usually the reason why someone retreats in boxing is to box back. But theoretically you could just clinch it all day. And boxers don't like clinches cause punching is less effective at that range. (and it's also the reason they're blocking all the time. They're in range!) Same with that swordfight, if one of these just stood still, the other would have to monkey it up, but none had to because the momentum would be too crazy to handle and the fight would go bonkers. They both were committed to the fight and the repositioning is natural to it. Noone had to reengage because the fight kept going. You slash, this carries you in some direction, the other guy knows this and adjusts accordingly. This is a normal fight. You know what's a retreat in that clip? When they both walk away from one another after getting to close/scoring. Truly out of reach. Not just a realtime dodge, the walking around IS the dodge (because turns are played at the same time) This is just standard fighting with natural repositions. Noone is retreating here. They're both committed, it's not a retreating dodge, noone is bailing, or anything. Edit: And maybe I can even prove that this was just normal regular fight dodging. Let's say one of the swordfighters overpressures the other and he caves in and the other starts hacking away because the other is unable to deal with the advance. You think there's a dodge then? Is the other sword guy going matrix in that situatin and weaving around the swinging steel!?!? I mean technically he'd be trying to dodge by virtue of anyone automatically tying to not get hit, but he'd basically be beat at that point. With any further writhing just being 'a normal side effect'. Furthermore, dodging a ranged attack doesn't dodge the bullet or the arrow, it means you MOVE in a way that makes the shooter miss. You're not retreating. You're not doing a retreating dodge (unless you are, but those tend to shift body posture you start RUNNING etc) you merely MOVE in a way that makes the other guy miss. You're not waiting for the bullet, step around it and end up in the same spot. Last edited by Lovewyrm; 04-29-2022 at 03:05 AM. |
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04-29-2022, 03:00 AM | #68 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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The complexities of two fighters moving are finer than the granularity of GURPS. A slight lead with a shoulder causes a reaction to sway or pivot which causes a counterreaction to step and use the other hand which causes a reaction to to try to block and reverse the sway and so on and so on. And as many people have mentioned many times, a hex of movement doesn't require a literal yard of movement all the time. It's an average that can reflect all those little nuanced movements that allow just enough space to help to avoid a blow but not so much you can't push back quickly to attempt to attack (perhaps to also face a retreat).
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Farmer Mortal Wombat "But if the while I think on thee, dear friend All losses are restored and sorrows end." |
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04-29-2022, 03:06 AM | #69 |
Join Date: Apr 2022
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
I haven't watched cricket, but I edited my post about ranged attacks.
I'll echo it. Furthermore, dodging a ranged attack doesn't dodge the bullet or the arrow, it means you MOVE in a way that makes the shooter miss. You're not retreating. You're not doing a retreating dodge (unless you are, but those tend to shift body posture you start RUNNING etc) you merely MOVE in a way that makes the other guy miss. You're not waiting for the bullet, step around it and end up in the same spot. Edit: And yeah, the fact that a yard is big is the reason why I consider the video linked at me 'normal fighting'. Walking around is normal to sword fighting. Otherwise it's, I dunno, whiffle batting or something. You don't see it often where two sword fighters stand around stock still only dodging the sword as it comes at them. It hapens too, I guess but it's not the core of fighting. This stepping around is just a standard effect of fighting. Noone is retreating or breaking off. They're both committed. Just like boxers are comitted to keep boxing after a clinch but they don't wanna retreat on their own (since that leaves them open) so the referee breaks them up. Oh yeah! Or in other words: Who of them is doing EXTRA STEPS? Do any of these fights come across like where one of them is going extra far, every 'turn'? How often does it seem like "Oh in this swing he took EXTRA movement" Maybe here or there, but not every attack. Tht would be unnatural. It's not impossible. I never said it's impossible, just that it ranges from goofy to exhausting. And also once again: Good luck swordfighting if one of them stepped forward into body contact. Enjoy those awkward swings then. In order to have a normal sword fight, you have to have spacing. Last edited by Lovewyrm; 04-29-2022 at 03:19 AM. |
04-29-2022, 03:16 AM | #70 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...
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Farmer Mortal Wombat "But if the while I think on thee, dear friend All losses are restored and sorrows end." |
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