Tech Level and Technique (Alchemy+)

[Alden Loveshade]

A difference of opinion came up in game play about Alchemy, but it could involve any Skill that has both Techniques and a TL.

By the Book

Using Techniques (B 230) says "Unless noted otherwise, all general modifiers to a skill - for...tech level (p. 168),and so forth - apply to its techniques, as do any special critical success or failure results."

Double Defaults and Techniques (B 232) says, "A skill cannot default to another skill known only by default (see Double Defaults, p. 173). However, techniques are not skills. If two techniques are based on the same underlying skill, one can default to the other, even if you only know the intermediate technique at default."

While Alchemy has a TL level, TL is not mentioned for Elixirs (Techniques).

Example

An Alchemist with Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 3) knows Regeneration (Technique) at Alchemy-1 or 15. He tries using a TL 4 lab, and is at -5 to Alchemy because of the TL difference, and thus is at -6 (-5 for TL difference and -1 for Technique level) for Regeneration. While using a TL 4 lab, his level is 11 for Alchemy (TL 4) and 10 for Regeneration.

But let's say he studies and gets TL 4 Alchemy at the same level he had it at TL 3, so he now has Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 4). He does nothing to increase Regeneration.

Question

If the Alchemist now uses a TL 4 lab, does he make a Regeneration Elixir at 15 (based on his Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 4) -1 (Technique)) or 10 (based on his Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 3) - 5 (TL difference) -1 (Technique))?

I'm assuming the answer to that would apply to any Skill with both a Tech Level and a Technique.

[Celjabba]

Logic would say the technique is linked to the specific TL skill, but given the relatively high cost of techniques, I would be tempted to rule the other way and say a technique apply to all TL version.
The same question could be asked for familiarity, actually...

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Alden_Loveshade

A difference of opinion came up in game play about Alchemy, but it could involve any Skill that has both Techniques and a TL.

By the Book

Using Techniques (B 230) says "Unless noted otherwise, all general modifiers to a skill - for...tech level (p. 168),and so forth - apply to its techniques, as do any special critical success or failure results."

Double Defaults and Techniques (B 232) says, "A skill cannot default to another skill known only by default (see Double Defaults, p. 173). However, techniques are not skills. If two techniques are based on the same underlying skill, one can default to the other, even if you only know the intermediate technique at default."

While Alchemy has a TL level, TL is not mentioned for Elixirs (Techniques).

Example

An Alchemist with Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 3) knows Regeneration (Technique) at Alchemy-1 or 15. He tries using a TL 4 lab, and is at -5 to Alchemy because of the TL difference, and thus is at -6 (-5 for TL difference and -1 for Technique level) for Regeneration. While using a TL 4 lab, his level is 11 for Alchemy (TL 4) and 10 for Regeneration.

But let's say he studies and gets TL 4 Alchemy at the same level he had it at TL 3, so he now has Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 4). He does nothing to increase Regeneration.

Question

If the Alchemist now uses a TL 4 lab, does he make a Regeneration Elixir at 15 (based on his Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 4) -1 (Technique)) or 10 (based on his Alchemy Skill 16 (TL 3) - 5 (TL difference) -1 (Technique))?

I'm assuming the answer to that would apply to any Skill with both a Tech Level and a Technique.

I would say he makes his elixir at 15. It's not like TL 3 and TL 4 versions of the same skill are totally separate things. The difference is that he now knows how to use all the stuff in the TL 4 lab and so it no longer penalizes him to try to use the same equipment.

[Alden Loveshade]

I appreciate your responses as two long-standing GURPites (is that a word? Hmm, Google Translate says it's Bosnian for the English word "Gurp.")

As it happens, the disagreement on how Techniques and Tech Levels interact is among some long-standing GURPSians. So I'm hoping I can get a RAW answer on this. If there's something in the Forum or books, I missed it. You'd think this question would have come up before. Thanks for what I've gotten so far!

[PK]

Unlike skills, techniques never have a /TL designation. This is because they exist (for the most part) to buy off a penalty involved in using a given skill, regardless of that skill's TL. (Obviously, some techniques only make sense for a limited range of TLs, but that's a red herring so I'm only acknowledging it to avoid someone pointing it out.)

And unlike skills with different specialties (where each specialty is considered a separate skill), a skill bought at multiple TLs is still the same skill. So any applicable technique would produce the same relative results.

Note that the same goes for perks that require specialization by skill; e.g., Grip Mastery (Pistol) works for any version of Guns/TL (Pistol) that you have, regardless of that skill's TL, because the /TL is not part of the perk's specialization.

TL;DR: 15.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by PK

Unlike skills, techniques never have a /TL designation.

Thanks for your answer! We were just about to resort to deciding by throwing alchemical nukes at each other, but this will save us the time and expense (the cleanup bill for alchemical nuclear war is just horrible).