Ultra-Zeroed

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Obscure (Memory) is another way to do it not using an Affliction. It's the same idea that Affliction 1 (Disadvantage, Delusion (I'm not here)) does the same thing as Invisibility except that Invisibility allows no save either...just a penalty.

Invisibility does not retroactively make people unsee what they have seen, unhear what they heard, unfeel what they felt, unread what they read, unlearn what they have learned and so on about the character, so these things are not equivalent.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Invisibility does not retroactively make people unsee what they have seen, unhear what they heard, unfeel what they felt, unread what they read, unlearn what they have learned and so on about the character, so these things are not equivalent.

Ok. I see the problem. I'm using a specific definition for Obscure (Memory) and you are using...another. That's not the way I wrote it. And since I don't feel like dumping text I could theoretically be paid for eventually I'm going to withdraw from this particular discussion on Obscure (Memory).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Ok. I see the problem. I'm using a specific definition for Obscure (Memory) and you are using...another. That's not the way I wrote it. And since I don't feel like dumping text I could theoretically be paid for eventually I'm going to withdraw from this particular discussion on Obscure (Memory).

Well, part of the problem is that the things covered by senses are defined quite precisely. And still they require uFAQ entries. The things covered by memory are much vaguer game-mechanically, and if read in the more intuitive and literal Obscure way, having a 'no roll allowed at all' for memory is going to be a Big Deal.

If your variant of the trait works differently than Obscure does, then of course the objections won't necessarily apply. But then it moves away from normal Obscure. I'm not sure whether it shares merely the name and the 10-level limit, or if it's not all that far from a straight reading of Obscure but applied to memory.

[starslayer]

Unfortunately ghostdancer won't be answering any more about his obscure memory build, however from RAW

Specific details are recalled via an IQ roll at additional penalty for time passed and complexity of the detail (a license plate is harder then a colour). Eidetic memory removes the penalty, and photographic memory makes no roll be required.

With obscure (memory) you would get additional penalty to that roll. Eidects would suffer the penalty. No die roll required would only translate to cancelling the no due roll required for photographic. As always 'don't bother rolling if final skill <3' would encompass most individuals attempts to recall details about you with smart eidicts and photographs occasionally breaking the effect completely. (Or one could argue that eidicts get to recall details as per normal memory and photograph gets to work like eidict some sort of cosmic photographic completely ignored the effect)

[SRoach]

Memory is quite plastic. It's easy to ascribe a shared event to the wrong person, until you know that person well.
It's easy to interact with a person without stopping to commit to memory just who you're dealing with. Consider the number of times you've set something down, and later had to hunt for it because you never bothered to notice you'd set it down in the first place, so couldn't recall where you set it down.

http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/11251

http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=3034

I find it quite believable that a person can interact with another person, and only much later realize they don't know who it was they were interacting with, or what they looked like. And that this NOT require that their memory be altered after the fact, (or at least not altered by the bearer of the Advantage).

[Flyndaran]

I think we all know how unrealiable eyewitness testimony is, especially when experiencing strong emotions.
I think memories are strongest when reinforced by way of thinking about them often. Just adding hypnotic suggestions to not think about something for days will drastically reduce the memories' clarity. Or reducing thier emotional connections will make them fade regardless of clarity.
My strongest memories involve events that felt important but never actually happened according to family members.

During this short thread, I've come around to feeling some kind of Obscure might work for memory manipulation.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Unfortunately ghostdancer won't be answering any more about his obscure memory build, however from RAW

Specific details are recalled via an IQ roll at additional penalty for time passed and complexity of the detail (a license plate is harder then a colour). Eidetic memory removes the penalty, and photographic memory makes no roll be required.

With obscure (memory) you would get additional penalty to that roll. Eidects would suffer the penalty. No die roll required would only translate to cancelling the no due roll required for photographic. As always 'don't bother rolling if final skill <3' would encompass most individuals attempts to recall details about you with smart eidicts and photographs occasionally breaking the effect completely. (Or one could argue that eidicts get to recall details as per normal memory and photograph gets to work like eidict some sort of cosmic photographic completely ignored the effect)

Yes, that was what I was referring to when saying that memory rules are less precise than perception rules (even though perception rules still require FAQ entries despite their greater precision). Penalizing the recall rolls is the easy part. The hard part is figuring which things are trivially easy to remember in normal circumstances (requiring no roll at all), but may or may not be still trivial after applying -1, -5 or even -9 of penalties. Saying 'if Obscure is in play, it always requires a roll' opens some other cans of worms. As does the tenth level ('no roll allowed at all').