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Old 12-04-2020, 12:53 PM   #11
DouglasCole
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Default Re: The Raid: Redemption, a Technical Grappling Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
Advantages:
Combat Reflexes [15]
Extra Attack 1 (probably w/Multiattack) [25/30]
Striking ST 1 or 2(likely) [5/10]
OHWT (Knife) [1]
Kiss The Wall defaults to Judo [1]
*Targeted Attack Karate Punch/Face: Skill -2 [4]
Kicking: Full Skill [2]
Knee Strike: Full Skill: [1]
*Targeted Attack Karate Kick/Face: Skill -2 [4]
*Targeted Attack Tonfa Swing/Leg Joint: Skill -2 [4]
*Targeted Attack Tonfa Swing/Vitals: Skill -1 [3]
*Targeted Attack Tonfa Swing/Face: Skill -2 [4]
*Targeted Attack Knee Strike/Vitals: Skill -1 [3]
I note that if you take the six targeted attack techniques, that's 22 points. Enough for Karate at +5 with 2 points left over. That means EVERYTHING gets better, and IIRC you can Karate-Punch with the tonfa held in reversed grip, so it helps.

Even so, with three tonfa TAs, +3 to Tonfa skill attacks the vitals at no penalty, face at effectively -2 from base anyway, etc. I'd just give higher skill. Karate by +2 with 2 points in techniques, and Tonfa by +3 and spend a point more.
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Raid: Redemption, a Technical Grappling Analysis

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I note that if you take the six targeted attack techniques, that's 22 points. Enough for Karate at +5 with 2 points left over. That means EVERYTHING gets better, and IIRC you can Karate-Punch with the tonfa held in reversed grip, so it helps.

Even so, with three tonfa TAs, +3 to Tonfa skill attacks the vitals at no penalty, face at effectively -2 from base anyway, etc. I'd just give higher skill. Karate by +2 with 2 points in techniques, and Tonfa by +3 and spend a point more.
Everything there is 100% spot on, and if I were building for efficiency, that's exactly what I would do, assuming a flexible bucket of points.

However, I was trying to keep Rama's base skills in the "damn good" but not in the super-hero range. Karate 21 is awesome, but Kromm and others have mentioned that Karate 21 is probably the highest skilled dude on the planet, and that once fairly realistic PCs get their skills to the 16 - 18 range, they normally improve by buying up techniques and advantages rather than just dumping more points into RAW skill. That's more of what I was trying to emulate.

Also, the few times you see Rama launch an attack against a foe that is capable of defending, that foe defends successfully. The Karate 21 guy is going to Deceptively Attack mundane foes into oblivion, and that's just not what we see on the screen.

Dumping those points into skills to get him Karate 19 and Tonfa 19 is more manageable I suppose, but still seem high for what we see in the movie.

But you are right...it's the most efficient way to build a capable, well-rounded martial artist.

One thing I've toyed around with is making the Styles in GURPS Martial Arts a bit more expensive, but set the default to all of that style's techniques at full skill. That way you invest heavily into a style, but get more points out of it in terms of being better at all that style's techniques than just raising base skill. I haven't done any actual play-testing of it yet, so I can't say definitively if it's a good solution or not.
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Old 12-04-2020, 01:20 PM   #13
DouglasCole
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Default Re: The Raid: Redemption, a Technical Grappling Analysis

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Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC View Post
One thing I've toyed around with is making the Styles in GURPS Martial Arts a bit more expensive, but set the default to all of that style's techniques at full skill. That way you invest heavily into a style, but get more points out of it in terms of being better at all that style's techniques than just raising base skill. I haven't done any actual play-testing of it yet, so I can't say definitively if it's a good solution or not.
I'm trying to remember where I saw "Wildcard Styles" or "Style Techniques" that do exactly that: all techniques at full skill, but each level of "Style!" skill is somethign like 12 points.

That does both things: it makes high overall skill levels quite expensive, but it also means you're not kickin' around with Skill-25.

In terms of "optimizing," though, I'd also say that once you start doing drills that are that many, to different techniques that involve putting your fist or weapon where you want ... at some point you're just working out and practicing overall accuracy. If I can hit your vitals, or your face, or your torso, or your knee...at that point, I'm just more skilled.

That being said, I think you're most of the way there simply by buying Extra Attack. Not having to soak Rapid Strike penalties all the time is huge.
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Raid: Redemption, a Technical Grappling Analysis

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I'm trying to remember where I saw "Wildcard Styles" or "Style Techniques" that do exactly that: all techniques at full skill, but each level of "Style!" skill is somethign like 12 points.
It's on p60 of 4e Martial Arts, at the usual price for a Wildcard skill. (ie: 3 for DX-3, 6 for DX-2, 12 for DX-1, 24 for DX, 36 for DX+1, etc). TBaM makes it also cover cinematic skills and techniques, and skills based on something besides DX float to that attribute.
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Old 12-04-2020, 06:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Raid: Redemption, a Technical Grappling Analysis

Many of the attacks to the "torso" are probably an easy pass as "attacks to the stomach" when translating from the screen to "reality".

Likewise, that one tonfa grapple to the "shoulder" is probably an easy pass as a "neck grapple"; Rama's actor has to keep the stuntmen safe, while Rama would have no such worries.

(World as Myth is an interesting concept, innit? ;) )
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Old 12-05-2020, 03:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Raid: Redemption, a Technical Grappling Analysis

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I note that if you take the six targeted attack techniques, that's 22 points. Enough for Karate at +5 with 2 points left over. That means EVERYTHING gets better
would be cool if we could do Alternative Abilities for points in techniques so there's still some incentive to specialize, but the closest to that might be using Modular Abilities which tends to be pricier
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