[DF] Dragonlance

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by maximara

"Low Magic" in GURPS doesn't fit what any D&D setting that I remember.

The wiki sums up Low Magic as "The magical equivalent of home remedies. It is magic that anybody might pick up, without systematic formal study, and used in everyday life or emergencies."

So? It's a wiki. It's not an official source. That definition is based on the opinion of whatever individual wrote the article. "Low Magic" could just as easily refer to a setting with universal low mana, or with strict Magery caps, even if the spells and mechanics were identical to the normal rules.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

So? It's a wiki. It's not an official source. That definition is based on the opinion of whatever individual wrote the article.

"Low magic is the magical equivalent of home remedies." and contains Craft Magic, Mysteries of the Trade, Oaths, Single Spells, and True Faith as sub listings.

That section is followed by Formulaic magic.

Also the wiki has the following references
* GURPS Fantasy 160
* GURPS Magic Items 3 pg 24
* GURPS Fantasy pg 162-3
* GURPS Fantasy pg 147

So it did shuffle things around a bit but it was likely to make them flow a little better.

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

"Low Magic" could just as easily refer to a setting with universal low mana, or with strict Magery caps, even if the spells and mechanics were identical to the normal rules.

Assuming mana based magic that would likely fall under High Fantasy (Fantasy pg 6)

I say mana based magic because "Unified Metaphysical Theories / Magical Psi" (GURPS Powers pg 181) states "In some settings, “magic” and “psi” both tap the same energies, in one case by study and formal disciplines, in the other by raw talent and willpower."

The Fanmade Five Earths, All in a Row setting mixes this idea with Roma Arcana's idea that spirits rather than some energy power magic. This is how Fantasy Earth has magic and spells even though it is No Mana.

GURPS is not just a toolbox but a lego set.

[Opellulo]

All the aspects are easily emulable, BUT I would suggest to trim down the many allignment-based rules: Dragonlance magic was a headache because appartently in the '80 it was perfectly sound to constantly track a complex three Moon phase calendar on top of the nonsensical 2Ed rules... Only to have Black robes incapable of throwing a fireball.

Same goes for Knight of Solamnia: 3 different classes for the same character archetype.. And for what I remember the Knight of the Rose was basically OP.

...also somebody said kender?

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by maximara

"Low magic is the magical equivalent of home remedies." and contains Craft Magic, Mysteries of the Trade, Oaths, Single Spells, and True Faith as sub listings.

That section is followed by Formulaic magic.

Also the wiki has the following references
* GURPS Fantasy 160
* GURPS Magic Items 3 pg 24
* GURPS Fantasy pg 162-3
* GURPS Fantasy pg 147

So it did shuffle things around a bit but it was likely to make them flow a little better.



Assuming mana based magic that would likely fall under High Fantasy (Fantasy pg 6)

I say mana based magic because "Unified Metaphysical Theories / Magical Psi" (GURPS Powers pg 181) states "In some settings, “magic” and “psi” both tap the same energies, in one case by study and formal disciplines, in the other by raw talent and willpower."

The Fanmade Five Earths, All in a Row setting mixes this idea with Roma Arcana's idea that spirits rather than some energy power magic. This is how Fantasy Earth has magic and spells even though it is No Mana.

GURPS is not just a toolbox but a lego set.

I will say that I didn't know this came from (read: was copied word-for-word from. The wiki probably really shouldn't do that.) an actual GURPS book, so I'll rephrase my original point: You're reading far too much into the phrase "low magic". It's not being used a term of art. When people say "low-magic", they just mean a setting without much magic. They almost certainly have absolutely no idea it was ever used in a GURPS book with a specific definition.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Opellulo

All the aspects are easily emulable, BUT I would suggest to trim down the many allignment-based rules: Dragonlance magic was a headache because appartently in the '80 it was perfectly sound to constantly track a complex three Moon phase calendar on top of the nonsensical 2Ed rules... Only to have Black robes incapable of throwing a fireball.

Same goes for Knight of Solamnia: 3 different classes for the same character archetype.. And for what I remember the Knight of the Rose was basically OP.

...also somebody said kender?

Actually, 1Ed dominated the 80s with 2Ed starting to come out in 1989 but even then rule incompatibility was an issue. If you tried to have Oriental Adventures and regular character together the Western characters came off as underpowered. The Unearthed Arcana upped the power of the Western characters and added to the rule bloat.

As the Gamespy article "Magic & Memories: The Complete History of Dungeons & Dragons - Part III" relates D&D during 2Ed became highly Balkanized with settings like Forgotten Realms and Planescape having every widening and incompatible rule systems.

The Complete (insert name of class here) Handbooks just aggravated the problem.

Regarding the kender that showed up in Dragon #101; love the expression on the magic-users' face — classic "I should have stayed in bed" look.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

I was a Dragonlance fan too long ago to have thoughts about what kinds of magic seem to belong in the setting, but its not the kind of setting where mages are like any other kind of artisan billing by the day.

I think what prevented this was not the lack of spells, but more the lack of magi and their stigma. Certainly fistandantalus kept his apprentices casting all the time as we saw when Raistlin studied under him. And when Raistlin was the "red robed trickster" with Tas, he cast quite frequently.

GURPS spell economy is based on middle-classed wizards having steady work. That's just not the world setting. I don't think it's a reflection of the spells.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Opellulo

All the aspects are easily emulable, BUT I would suggest to trim down the many allignment-based rules: Dragonlance magic was a headache because appartently in the '80 it was perfectly sound to constantly track a complex three Moon phase calendar on top of the nonsensical 2Ed rules... Only to have Black robes incapable of throwing a fireball.

Depends on what you're going for. For me, I'm leaning WAY into the alignment. Dragons are color-coded for your convenience. Moons rule wizards. I made an excel spreadsheet which tracks the moons based on the circle-chart from the 1e handbook. It shows waxing waning, high, low, and each conjunction. It'll even roll the D8s if you want.

The thing I really wanted to emulate for alignment-based rules in wizards, though, was that black-robes rise to power faster while white gained more power in the long run.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by khorboth

The thing I really wanted to emulate for alignment-based rules in wizards, though, was that black-robes rise to power faster while white gained more power in the long run.

That can be emulated by the black-robes having a higher odds of death by adventurer.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

You're reading far too much into the phrase "low magic". It's not being used a term of art. When people say "low-magic", they just mean a setting without much magic. They almost certainly have absolutely no idea it was ever used in a GURPS book with a specific definition.

I'm just using the definition for "Low Magic" GURPS Fantasy gives us. "Low magic" on wikipedia has a totally different meaning (relating to Satanic magic).

GURPS uses "High Fantasy" to describe rare magic settings. What magic exists is focused in a handful of items or people or limited to deities.

For example, Greek Mythology would be "High Fantasy" as spell casting by even demigods is next to nil. What magic does exist is the product of the gods or potions. Actual spell casting is effectively absent.

Low fantasy by contrast is the setting where magic is common and a part of everyday life. Merlin-1 is a Low fantasy setting.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by maximara

I'm just using the definition for "Low Magic" GURPS Fantasy gives us. "Low magic" on wikipedia has a totally different meaning (relating to Satanic magic).

GURPS uses "High Fantasy" to describe rare magic settings. What magic exists is focused in a handful of items or people or limited to deities.

For example, Greek Mythology would be "High Fantasy" as spell casting by even demigods is next to nil. What magic does exist is the product of the gods or potions. Actual spell casting is effectively absent.

Low fantasy by contrast is the setting where magic is common and a part of everyday life. Merlin-1 is a Low fantasy setting.

You're either overlooking or ignoring my actual point, and then the rest of the reply is just completely irrelevant. The context of the original post is very clear that by "low magic", they just mean that magic is rare in the setting. They're not using any specific, esoteric definition of the term. It's just the word low being used as a normal adjective.