Help with explaining why Superman can't get 300 DR for 5 points?

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

"Then I am going to have to bow out. It doesn't make sense and I'm not going to play a game where there is only one specific way to do something."

Any potential players that says something along these lines would not be playing in my game. I would let them know that its ok and they don't need to play in it. I have structured the game rules the way I have for this campaign and the costs are the way they are. I can work with a player to try and get their concept to fit into the game with the rules I have chosen, the player must understand that they should be thinking up a character concept that FITS the campaign rules.

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

He's even got some of the other players questioning it now, one said basically what if it's like Dune? Advanced weapons exist, but most people still use regular swords?

This is the worst part, he is trying to get the other players to side with him. That means no one will respect you as the GM. At that point I will let everyone know that the game is off since none of them are going to respect my decisions as the GM. No need for me to waste my time fighting to get them to play.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I generally operate under the assumption that the GM won't try to screw over the player. The location where the character reforms should be safe - reforming in the middle of a group of armed goons largely defeats the purpose of buying that third level, as would reforming inside an active incinerator, on top of the pressure panel that triggers a trap, inside of a locked cage, or half a mile in the air. Now, OpFor can take efforts to make UK3 less reliable - a soul trap that can imprison your ghost, EMF detectors to work out where you're going to reform (by tracking your energy form) to ambush and capture you, actually just capturing rather than "killing" you, etc - but outside of the occasional comedic interlude, the character shouldn't reform somewhere inconvenient.

For sure, but "reform at home" is perfectly reasonable as long as it's settled on before play, and so is "as close as possible to the point of death, but not in a spot where the environment will kill you (unless the whole area is such)", and so is "within a few miles in a safe spot". The big thing is that the player doesn't get to decide, the GM does - explicitly.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

I am too old. I've literally been playing GURPS since 1987 and... I just am getting more and more a "Get off my lawn you darn kids!" attitude about gaming.

As you age, you come to realize that the get-off-my-lawn guy had a point.

[Rolando]

Kick the player out.

Don't play with people that try to force your hand with emotional crap and blackmail like that.

Do it four the rest of the players if it doesn't bother you as much.

Anything else about the system and setting dials to make some advantages cost less or more is secondary. You may consider them, but that person is better not in a table where people is playing a fun game.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Rupert

For sure, but "reform at home" is perfectly reasonable as long as it's settled on before play, and so is "as close as possible to the point of death, but not in a spot where the environment will kill you (unless the whole area is such)", and so is "within a few miles in a safe spot". The big thing is that the player doesn't get to decide, the GM does - explicitly.

Agreed, on all counts. Personally I'd be inclined to have "Reform at Home" as a Limitation, at least if you have sufficient Regeneration (possibly with the Unkillable Only Limitation) that reforming nearby would typically be markedly more useful.


For the topic at hand, it's possible OP is exaggerating the problem player's behavior, but as a general rule of thumb a player who will not accept GM rulings is a player you don't want at the table. One who argues for an alternative way of handling things isn't necessarily an issue, but they have to be willing to accept that the GM has the final say. If I bring Shigran to a DF game, and the GM rejects the character on account of the many rules it twists and/or breaks (he's a Swashbuckler who uses a spear instead of a sword, uses the Weapon Adaptation Perk to make his spear give him all the benefits of a staff including +2 Parry, uses two upgrade modules that are explicitly allowed only for those with the Thief profession, has Consumable Signature Gear which isn't even an option in DF to my knowledge, has a custom Code of Honor, and has a custom Perk that makes his blood as flammable as lantern oil), I'd certainly try to make the case for why inclusion of the character wouldn't be a problem... but if the GM rejected that, I'd just make a different character who fit the options available.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Rupert

For sure, but "reform at home" is perfectly reasonable as long as it's settled on before play, and so is "as close as possible to the point of death, but not in a spot where the environment will kill you (unless the whole area is such)", and so is "within a few miles in a safe spot". The big thing is that the player doesn't get to decide, the GM does - explicitly.

I generally take "GM's decision" in this case to mean that the GM should just keep it a bit unpredictable, so that you don't wind up with a PC regularly performing tactical suicide.

[thrash]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Personally I'd be inclined to have "Reform at Home" as a Limitation, at least if you have sufficient Regeneration (possibly with the Unkillable Only Limitation) that reforming nearby would typically be markedly more useful.

I don't know: a sufficiently bloody-minded character could use it as a cheap ticket back to base, just by committing suicide.

[Mathulhu]

One player wants to get Innate DR through character points.

Are there other routes to get that level of DR?

How many character points does it take to get the DR the other ways?

How much of a penalty is the character with Innate DR going to negate because their DR is Innate?

How many character points does it cost to buy off that penalty?

Answer these two questions and you can see how much that DR is actually worth. If it isn't worth 100 character points, or whatever the Innate DR actually costs, the player has a legitimate point that deserves to be addressed.
Your response might be a simple "I don't want to recalculate everything" and that's valid, but you do have control over the points costs so changing them is an option.


My thoughts is that Innate DR cost (and other Innate Ability cost) should scale with TL. The cost of being functionally immune to a standard side arm at TL 0 is about 10 where as it is about 50 at TL 8. If the campaign is one where Innate DR is available then I would expect there to be ways around it, just like there are tools that defeat high DR tools.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by thrash

I don't know: a sufficiently bloody-minded character could use it as a cheap ticket back to base, just by committing suicide.

It has its upsides and its downsides - you respawn in a (presumably) safe place right by all you spare clothes, guns, and other kit. On the downside, unless the enemy is in your base, killing your dudes, you're now a good distance from the fight and probably won't be getting back in time to rejoin it.

Meanwhile, if you respawn by the fight you're handy to it, but unless all your combat prowess is from innate powers you have the problem that you're without your gear (unless the GM has allowed you to and you have spent points on getting gear that goes with you).

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Not really. Mostly it encourages not taking conventional defenses at all because you can't buy enough of them for an affordable price to make any difference.

Buying enough DR to survive heavy weapons costs a lot, but the fact is that most fictional settings that have really heavy weapons never use them on individual protagonists in the first place. What keeps characters from dying in those settings is more an issue of genre convention than personal DR.

It might be that what you need isn't high DR, but a setting switch. Say the GM promises that nobody will ever be attacked with a portable weapon that inflicts more than twice as much damage as the heaviest one they have used on individuals themselves or something. Sure Superman has a lot of DR, and villains sometimes shoot nukes at him because of it, but if a squishier hero is standing next to him and would be vaporized by the spillover, it isn't going to happen in the source material either.