Help with explaining why Superman can't get 300 DR for 5 points?

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by sjmdw45

Nitpick: DR 300 for 5 points wasn't the player's request, it was the OP's attempt at reductio ad absurdum.

What you are describing never happened.

Well, not directly, but let me try it another way.

It's a space campaign. so look at it as the player thinks that his alien species should be able to stand up to a Jedi with a lightsaber or shrug off blasters as if he had a full suit of Mandalorian Armor without having to actually purchase Mandalorian armor. He wants his skin to naturally be as tough. Which can be done, but not for 5 points (which again, was more my example as to how the system works at the base level, stone age weapons or ultra-tech, the cost per point of DR remains the same.) Since the campaign is a space campaign where things like blasters exist, innate species DR he thinks should have its' price reduced to compensate.

[acrosome]

I don't think that you should make a high-powered campaign by giving this jerk anything he wants. If you want a high-powered campaign then give the players more points. Explain to him that that's how it is done. I honestly have never heard of anything so ridiculous. About character generation of all things!

But I have to tell you, he just sounds like he's being a difficult jackass. If he told me that he wasn't sure that he wants to play my game my answer would be "Good!"

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Me just now to the player and rest of the group

I am not exaggerating when I say I have been playing GURPS since 1987. I know all the tricks and hacks. I even once convinced another GM to switch to 4th Edition by completely breaking his game using 3rd edition rules that had been completely overhauled in 4th edition, specifically to stop how easy it was to do exactly what I did, by the RAW. Not my best moment doing that to him, but what it means for you is that if you want to do something, I know all the tricks and hacks to compromise a solution.

Hell, even bumping you all up to 500 points is an option. Not saying I am going to do that, but if you are willing to work with me, that's something that is on the table if we all think it's a good idea. It's something we all can discuss.

For those here who will understand what I did to the other GM, GURPS 3rd Edition Psionics rules, specifically Telekinesis. Veterans like me should known exactly the shenanigans I pulled.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

It's a space campaign. so look at it as the player thinks that his alien species should be able to stand up to a Jedi with a lightsaber or shrug off blasters as if he had a full suit of Mandalorian Armor without having to actually purchase Mandalorian armor. He wants his skin to naturally be as tough.

While it doesn't sound like he was particularly diplomatic about how he said it, the reality is that being able to shrug off attacks as if wearing armor should not be hugely more expensive than actually buying the and wearing the armor (basically, additional cost to cover eliminating the normal penalties of wearing armor, such as encumbrance and reaction modifiers).

[ericthered]

Two campaigns ago, I gave my players these options:

Damage, ST, DR and Move for Powers and Racial Abilities

As we are in an ultratech setting and damage numbers can get really high, these traits will be purchased according to the level they let you act at. This should be a massive costs savings. If you want to be better than others at your scale, you should spend just a few more points.

• Soldier Scale: 5 for one or 10 for more
• Power Armor Scale: 20 for one or 40 for more
• Mecha Scale: 30 for one or 60 for more
• Spaceship Scale: 50 for one or 100 for more

It worked out fine, though I do wish that I'd charged extra for having those numbers while looking ordinary. The guy who bought being an entire ship felt just about right. The space vampire with mech level TK felt a little more out of hand. But that was usually because the vampire could walk into a bar and no one would know they're looking at that kind of firepower. One character decided to go without any of the massive boosts and went for mind control and precognition.

If you're looking for a way to rescale things that actually has been played and somewhat verified.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I mean... he's not entirely wrong (although [5] for DR 300 is rather excessively low). A lot of forumites - GM's and players alike - feel that many Advantages should have their costs scaled to the setting (this typically comes up as TL-based scaling). A character at TL 9 can buy a 6 lb Reflex Bodysuit for $900 (3% starting wealth) and get DR 12/4* (pi and cut/everything else), which would cost somewhere around [35] to buy as innate DR - DR 4 (Flexible -20%) [16] + DR 8 (Flexible -20%; Piercing Only -40%) [16] + DR 8 (Flexible -20%; Cutting Only -40%; Alternate Ability x1/5) [3.1].

As innate DR bought like that you also get to always have it on, you don't take reaction penalties for being armoured where you shouldn't be, and you don't take the weight cost. Those most likely aren't worth 30+ points, but they're not nothing.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Well that was only my example to try to explain why DR costs do not scale, but he wasn't even willing to look at those kinds of options as he saw that innate DR price not scaling directly to the damage able to be dealt in the campaign was the issue.

Did he take into consideration that buying damage with points (innate attacks, ST, etc.) also doesn't change in price with campaign?

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Did he take into consideration that buying damage with points (innate attacks, ST, etc.) also doesn't change in price with campaign?

Not that I am aware of, no. His intent seemed to be to want to make a sort of monk warrior type. Dirt poor but a powerful warrior. But that meant he either needed to buy extreme DR, or be rich enough to afford armor.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

Not that I am aware of, no. His intent seemed to be to want to make a sort of monk warrior type. Dirt poor but a powerful warrior. But that meant he either needed to buy extreme DR, or be rich enough to afford armor.

To my mind that's not a concept that needs a ton of DR, as they should be surviving by not being hit, and then by being hard to kill, not by being bulletproof.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Rupert

As innate DR bought like that you also get to always have it on, you don't take reaction penalties for being armoured where you shouldn't be, and you don't take the weight cost. Those most likely aren't worth 30+ points, but they're not nothing.

As I noted in another part of that post, you can buy the armor as Signature Gear and negate the weight with Payload. You then buy off the functional Gadget Limitations (and others Limitations, if applicable) the armor comes with, like the fact it can be stolen, can be damaged/destroyed, makes it obvious you are wearing armor (arguably that would just be -5%, but I could see cause to instead require the character to buy No Signature +20% to offset it), etc. I didn't address it in that post (largely because I'm assuming OP isn't actually interested in such options), but boosts would be applied to the cost of the Signature Gear - arguably, you'd actually apply them to the monetary cost of the gear itself and calculate Signature Gear from that. That's not going to get you higher DR than you could purchase as gear, of course, although there may be ways around that (using the Armor Design articles from Pyramid, you could design armor for a larger character than you - meaning it can be thicker than what you could wear - then buy Shrinking with an appropriate level of Can Carry Objects alongside Retains DR +30%, and with Always On -50%; given you're looking at around x3 to weight and cost for every x1.5 to maximum DR, you probably can't get too large on a low budget using this hack).