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Old 02-08-2021, 09:25 PM   #41
maximara
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousThing View Post
Thaumatology added to Magery rather than changing it.
It wasn't magery itself Thaumatology changed change but how Magery 0 + magery with limitations worked:

Magery 0 with no limitations

"Roxana the Sun-Witch buys Magery 0 with no limitations, for 5 points, plus three more levels with the Day-Aspected limitation, -40%, for 18 points. Total cost is 23 points. She can detect and use magic items, and cast spells that donít have Magery 1+ as a prerequisite, whenever she wants; when the sun is in the sky, though, she casts at +3." This expressly overrules the Basic Set which stated "Day-Aspected: You can use your powers only when the sun is in the sky (...) When the sun is down, you have none of your magical abilities, although a look at your aura reveals that you are a mage." (sic)

Limitation is only to spell castinge
Half of the limitation's cost is used with regards to Magery 0
"Aufidius the Dark-Master buys Magery 0 with the Dark-Aspected limitation at half its usual value, or -25%, for 4 points. He buys two more levels of Magery with the full - 50% version of that limitation, for 10 points. Total cost is 14 points. Aufidius can sense and use magic items just like an unlimited mage, but he can only cast spells in the dark."

Basic Set versions that fall under this: Dance Magery and Song Magery

Limitation applies to both magic item detection and spells
The full limitation's cost is used.
"Lysimachus the Dancer buys Magery 0 with the Dance limitation, -40%, for 3 points, plus another two levels of Magery, also with that limitation, for 12 points. Total cost is 15 points. Not only must he dance to cast spells, he cannot detect magic items or use some of them without dancing."

Basic Set versions that fall under this: Dark-Aspected Magery, Day-Aspected Magery, and Solitary Magery
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Old 02-08-2021, 10:24 PM   #42
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

That was more of a clarification than anything else, as the previous rule had been ported from 3e (just like most of the standard magic system), and it caused some confusion.
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Old 02-09-2021, 01:45 AM   #43
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
It wasn't magery itself Thaumatology changed change but how Magery 0 + magery with limitations worked:

Magery 0 with no limitations

"Roxana the Sun-Witch buys Magery 0 with no limitations, for 5 points, plus three more levels with the Day-Aspected limitation, -40%, for 18 points. Total cost is 23 points. She can detect and use magic items, and cast spells that donít have Magery 1+ as a prerequisite, whenever she wants; when the sun is in the sky, though, she casts at +3." This expressly overrules the Basic Set which stated "Day-Aspected: You can use your powers only when the sun is in the sky (...) When the sun is down, you have none of your magical abilities, although a look at your aura reveals that you are a mage." (sic)
Basic assumes that all Magery is bought with the same limitations.

Roxana buys 1 level (0) with no limitations. Therefore she can do whatever Magery-0 gets her all the time. The rest of her Magery is bought wiwth "Day-Aspected". Therefore she has Magery-3 during the daytime.

I don't see a problem. Basic had space limitations and couldn't have a huge amount of examples. Thaumatology was specifically designed to increase the options of magic, so it had more examples.
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Old 02-09-2021, 04:45 AM   #44
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
That was more of a clarification than anything else, as the previous rule had been ported from 3e (just like most of the standard magic system), and it caused some confusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerousThing View Post
Basic assumes that all Magery is bought with the same limitations.

Roxana buys 1 level (0) with no limitations. Therefore she can do whatever Magery-0 gets her all the time. The rest of her Magery is bought wiwth "Day-Aspected". Therefore she has Magery-3 during the daytime.

I don't see a problem. Basic had space limitations and couldn't have a huge amount of examples. Thaumatology was specifically designed to increase the options of magic, so it had more examples.
You both are still missing the change.

Yes, Thaumatology does try to put a fig leaf on the issue by a claiming "Notably, the rules assume that even under conditions that prevent the mage from casting spells (e.g., at night if he has the Day-Aspected limitation), he can detect enchantments and use mage-only magic items."

But in reality a straight RAW of the Basic Set, "When the sun is down, you have none of your magical abilities, although a look at your aura reveals that you are a mage.", says the exact opposite as "magical abilities" would include the ability to detect enchantments and use mage-only magic items. QED.

In fact, Thaumatology itself confirms this two paragraphs down:

"Mages who have limitations on all of their Magery, including Magery 0, cannot cast spells, detect items, or use mage-only items when their limitations apply; theyíre effectively non-mages some of the time."

and again in the paragraph after that:

"Those with limitations only on Magery above 0 can always cast spells and sense and use items normally, but can only unleash their full power in restricted circumstances. "

Back to the basic Set: "You cannot detect magic items unless they contain at least one spell of your college". This is in direct odds with what Thaumatology as magic item detection for normal Magery 0 detects all magic items not requiring Magery.

So an One College Weather Mage can still see a magic item enchanted with Beast-Soother which conflicts with the Basic Set.
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Old 02-09-2021, 07:34 AM   #45
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
It is, clearly, not.


Emphasis from book.
And yet there are advantages in the book that make you immune to certain kinds of situation that cause damage.

Like Vacuum Support and explosive decompression.

Incidentally, how would you build up an explosive decompression ability?
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Old 02-09-2021, 08:46 AM   #46
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

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Originally Posted by Taneli View Post
And yet there are advantages in the book that make you immune to certain kinds of situation that cause damage.

Like Vacuum Support and explosive decompression.

Incidentally, how would you build up an explosive decompression ability?
IMHO you wouldn't need to as Compendium II's "Exploding Eyeballs" cinematic rule (and several others) is still usable as is in 4e.
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Old 02-09-2021, 10:52 AM   #47
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
You both are still missing the change.

Yes, Thaumatology does try to put a fig leaf on the issue by a claiming "Notably, the rules assume that even under conditions that prevent the mage from casting spells (e.g., at night if he has the Day-Aspected limitation), he can detect enchantments and use mage-only magic items."

But in reality a straight RAW of the Basic Set, "When the sun is down, you have none of your magical abilities, although a look at your aura reveals that you are a mage.", says the exact opposite as "magical abilities" would include the ability to detect enchantments and use mage-only magic items. QED.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
But in reality a straight RAW of the Basic Set, "When the sun is down, you have none of your magical abilities, although a look at your aura reveals that you are a mage.", says the exact opposite as "magical abilities" would include the ability to detect enchantments and use mage-only magic items. QED.
From the February 2005 GURPS FAQ:
Quote:
Q: If the condition of the aspected magery is not met, I cannot cast spells at all. So why is the limitation not applied to Magery 0?

A: Because you can still detect magic and use "mage only" items, which is very useful.
"Magical abilities", "Powers" and so on are being used to mean "cast spells". Assuming that the limitations that say "magical abilities" instead of specifically "cast spells" would be absurd, given that the ones that specify "cast spells" are priced similarly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Back to the basic Set: "You cannot detect magic items unless they contain at least one spell of your college". This is in direct odds with what Thaumatology as magic item detection for normal Magery 0 detects all magic items not requiring Magery.

So an One College Weather Mage can still see a magic item enchanted with Beast-Soother which conflicts with the Basic Set.
Yes it does. The current FAQ entry contradicts basic too:
Quote:
Q: The description for "One College Magery" says that "You learn other spells as though you were a non-mage, and can only cast them in high- mana area." The problem is, according to the Basic Set, this limitation doesn't apply to Magery 0, and as long as you have Magery 0, you are a mage and can cast spells in normal mana. So which is right?

A: "One-College Magery" is a special case. The effects listed under its heading under p. B67 apply, meaning you can't cast spells not of your college, or sense magic items that do not have at least one spell of your college, even if you have Magery 0. Accordingly, you should also apply the -40% limitation of "One-College Magery" to Magery 0, lowering its value from 5 to 3 points.
Getting back to Thaumatology, and I won't be quoting it because we're getting awfully close to literally just putting all of page 21 in this thread.

Basically, there are 3 cases T21 talks about under "Limited Magery 0?":
-> Regular Magery 0, which has no limitations on it
-> Limited Magery 0, which as a full priced limitation attached to it
-> Semi-Limited Magery 0, which has a half-priced limitation attached

Using the new rules from Thaumatology, people with regular Magery 0 can cast spells, detect and use items. They may cast spells while ignoring their Limited Magery 1+ restriction, but they don't get the bonus. Limited Magery 0 can't cast spells, detect or use items if they don't meet their limitation. Semi-Limited Magery 0 cannot cast spells if they don't meet their limitation, but they can still detect and use items.
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Old 02-09-2021, 11:09 AM   #48
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
From the February 2005 GURPS FAQ:

Q: If the condition of the aspected magery is not met, I cannot cast spells at all. So why is the limitation not applied to Magery 0?

A: Because you can still detect magic and use "mage only" items, which is very useful.
But note what this part of the FAQ does NOT say; that you can cast spells that don't require Magery.

It should say:

A. Actually you can cast spells that don't require Magery 1 or higher as well still detect magic and use "mage only" items, all of which are very useful. This only changes if the limitation is applied to Magery 0 as well likely changing it's point total.
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Old 02-09-2021, 12:01 PM   #49
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

For a PC I think the best way to figure out "Immunity to X" is to take the median (not average, RPGs and whatever will mess with that) power of the attacks you expect of that type, and then add 100% more DR than you need to resist that and declare THAT to be the cost for complete immunity.

So if the median fire attack is 2d6 fireballs (7 damage) then Immunity to Fire would cost 42 points (Damage Resistance (Fire, -40%) 14 [42])

In another setting maybe the median fire attack is 4d6(2) lasers, in that case Immunity to Fire would cost 112 points (Damage Resistance (Fire, -40%, Hardened 1, +20%) 28 [112])

If you think +100% is overkill for immunity and you want immunity to be more common then you could of course make the cost lower. Perhaps cost of resisting 'Median +50%' instead of +100%?
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Old 02-09-2021, 01:48 PM   #50
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Default Re: How should i run monsters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taneli View Post
And yet there are advantages in the book that make you immune to certain kinds of situation that cause damage.

Like Vacuum Support and explosive decompression.
Vacuum Support provides niche protection for a niche issue. Please provide an example of an advantage that provides blanket, damage, immunity as Resistant (Immunity) would.

If there is a resistance roll involved, Resistant (Immunity) provides full protection. If there is no resistance roll . . .. Bobb's your uncle.

Quote:
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Incidentally, how would you build up an explosive decompression ability?
Innate Attack (Toxic), with Respiratory Agent, or, potentially Area Effect + Contact Agent. Add Damage Modifier (Explosion) and (Fragmentation) for extra chunks.
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