09-01-2021, 07:29 AM | #21 | |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
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I would probably look at Path Magic, add -20% or -40% for Song Magic and then make new rituals for things like healing. And also look at the Thaumatology chapter on Material Magic.
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09-01-2021, 01:33 PM | #22 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
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Beings other than the Wizards are said to use wizardry in Tolkien's stories. Sauron uses it to trick Gorm into revealing Barahir's location in The Silmarillion. "He chanted a song of wizardry, / Of piercing, opening, of treachery, / Revealing, uncovering, betraying" in the Lay of Leithian. But of course, Sauron is an embodied Maia. The Elves of Nargothrond "with stealth and ambush, with wizardry and venomed dart... pursued all strangers..." They're as incarnate as we are, so they're a data point. Some other characters like Pippin and Gimli sometimes attribute an effect or property to wizardry, but I don't consider them reliable for this purpose. |
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09-01-2021, 01:58 PM | #23 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denver, CO
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
I haven't seen the series mentioned, and I don't want to dismiss this very true fact of song-based magic.
But it's also frequently tied to objects. Not just the rings. Kingsfoil was unlocked by noble blood. Elven rope burned Gollum. Elven blades glowed in the presense of orcs. Both versions of Grond were mighty weapons. Anduril launched the flaming sword trope. And that's just off the top of my head. Also: impressive thread necromancy. *golf clap* |
09-01-2021, 04:15 PM | #24 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
The Witch-king of Angmar was human.
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09-01-2021, 05:08 PM | #25 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
He wasn't specifically called a wizard in the books, IIRC, though he was a human magic-user. I think Tolkien had decided at some point before the LotR trilogy was finished, possibly before Fellowship was out, that 'wizard' was a term specific to the five Istarii on Middle Earth, or perhaps to incarnated Maiar (or Maiar with a specific set of limitations and abilities in their mortal forms, and we only know about five that fit it).
EDIT: When I'm more awake, I might reread this thread, and post some ideas that I had relating to GURPS magic systems in Middle Earth. Too tired, now. Main thought is that there would probably be more than one system, as Galadriel (who ought to know) seemed pretty clear that the things she did that hobbits called 'magic' were fundamentally different from what Morgoth, Sauron, et al did that the hobbits also called 'magic.'
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09-01-2021, 05:51 PM | #26 | |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
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09-01-2021, 06:00 PM | #27 |
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
Any sufficiently bewildering system of magic is indistinguishible from technology that you also don't understand.
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09-01-2021, 08:44 PM | #28 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
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Given Tolkien was a professor of literature one has to be careful what one reads into his use of "wizard". The Elves of Nargothrond example above could just as easily be read as 'with stealth and ambush, with extreme skill (wizardry") and venomed dart... pursued all strangers...' Heck, Edison was called the Wizard of Menlo Park and Jay Gould the Wizard of Wall Street and they didn't use spells.
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09-01-2021, 10:17 PM | #29 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
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I think (though I'm not sure) that the Middle-earth books probably contradict themselves a bit over how magic is supposed to work. It's a lot of writing, after all. The elves of Lorien claim not to understand what is meant by "magic" and that this is simply how things work; but at other times people (who weren't using "dark magic", either) are definitely said to use definite "spells" and I'm not sure that those people weren't even sometimes elves. Quote:
So for a game set in Middle-earth you could pick various different possibilities that would fit equally well.
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09-02-2021, 05:26 AM | #30 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
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Re: Magic of Middle Earth
Tolkien absolutely did not use the word "wizard" to mean "very skilled person" in any of his writings. As I just pointed out, we are told exactly what he meant by it. Furthermore, I believe the slang usage didn't emerge until the 1920s — Tolkien would never have used such modern slang in his writing. When Tolkien says the Elves of Nargothrond used wizardry, he meant magic.
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magic, tolkien |
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