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05-17-2021, 12:36 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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Not being knighted didn't always stop you inheriting the land that was once a knight's fee, though, depending how strong the overlord's family had been vs how good your family was at making the inheritance customary. The thing is, there was never a 'feudal system'. That's something people try to impose on the past to make sense of it. Every case was it's own special case. In England 'baron' originally simply meant someone who held their lands directly from the king, with no intermediate noble. Thus barons often had other titles as well. Over time the meaning changed, and it became the lowest rank of 'true' noble (though baronets, etc. muddied things somewhat).
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05-17-2021, 12:44 PM | #22 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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05-17-2021, 03:34 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature Last edited by Polydamas; 05-17-2021 at 03:53 PM. |
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05-17-2021, 06:33 PM | #24 | |
Icelandic - Approach With Caution
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Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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Baronet is the term for a landed knight. Then as I understand it in the same system knight aren't nobles, but they're not commoners either. |
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05-18-2021, 10:54 AM | #25 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
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05-18-2021, 11:12 AM | #26 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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05-18-2021, 11:48 AM | #27 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
Cardiel is more populous, more urban, and has the important natural resource of mana. I imagine the lords of Cardiel think of Caithness like the Italians thought of Poland or Norway: "yeah, we can sell some things there but its so remote and old-fashioned."
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"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature |
05-21-2021, 04:29 AM | #28 | |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
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At the Model Parliament in 1295 (at which the right of lords to be summoned to Parliament was established) there were 49 barons (including the earls), I think 26 bishops, and 292 commons (two knights from each shire, two burgesses from each borough). In a mediaeval kingdom of several million population, in an area that favours broad-field agriculture, there are probably several thousand villages. Each village corresponding inexactly to a manor and to a parish. The average population of a village is probably more than 1,200 but fewer than 2,000, including women, children, servants, and landless labourers. Depending on how the country is run, about a quarter of the manors might be royal demesnes (run by bailiffs answering to the Steward). Up to a third of the manors might belong to institutions and officials of the Church — and that’s not counting the priest’s glebe in each parish. (Church holdings tended to increase monotonically because they never escheated and were never forfeited, but whenever they reached a third of a kingdom that was destabilising, and half of them would be confiscated and distributed to royal accomplices who could perform military and court service for them.) That leaves perhaps a couple of thousand manors in the possession of lay landlords, who were mostly knights (and later, when knighthood became an expensive nuisance, squires). A knight who owned five manors was on the margin of being considered a lord. If he played his political cards right he might get a licence to crenellate and a summons to parliament; but he was not so important that he had to get them even if the king disliked him. For that you needed ten or more. I’d say about five hundred landed knights averaging two manors each and fifty lords averaging twenty manors each.
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 05-23-2021 at 08:00 PM. |
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05-21-2021, 04:34 AM | #29 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
Once upon a time (c. 1265) Sir John de Daiville (or De Ewill, or D’Eyvile) was a wealthy knight. He owned five villages in Nottinghamshire and Yorkshire, but being recognised as a baron slipped through his fingers.
A village probably has a bailiff to run it for the owner, who might visit once per year, if ever. The owner might be an abbey, nunnery, or cathedral chapter. Or a bishop.
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Decay is inherent in all composite things. Nod head. Get treat. Last edited by Agemegos; 05-22-2021 at 05:05 AM. Reason: reorganised |
05-21-2021, 04:38 AM | #30 |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oz
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Re: [Banestorm] Why is the Cardien Council of Lords full of barons and vicounts?
Now it does. But that’s after five hundred years of post-mediaeval monarchs handing out hereditary titles as a reward for political favours and service.
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