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Old 07-19-2015, 10:02 AM   #101
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

You probably arent starting off with a 160-200lb or whatever warbow when you start your training to become an archer, you start with lesser bows and move up

Also, bows are not indestructible and immune to wear. Bows break down like anything else when you fire 1000s upon 1000s of shots as the bow flexes through various states of tension and back again

(parts of guns also wear out if they are used enough, but, guns have many parts, so the gun can stay 'this gun' in the Ship of Perseus fashion as it gets different new parts at different times)

So I still don't find it particularly likely in a 'realistic' campaign (though admittedly, the chances of me running a realistic campaign are somewhere between slim to none, so I'm not to worried about it)

I won't prevent people from taking Weapon Bond, but it does offend my sensibilities a bit in many cases
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:10 AM   #102
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
You probably arent starting off with a 160-200lb or whatever warbow when you start your training to become an archer, you start with lesser bows and move up
It's true. For gaming purposes, having your fully-developed archer take a Weapon Bond with their kiddie starter bow would probably be pretty dumb (even though it would probably be very realistic).

I'm not sure why you think that's a point against taking weapon bond with your bow, though. You just take the Bond with a bow that's actually relevant to the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Also, bows are not indestructible and immune to wear. Bows break down like anything else when you fire 1000s upon 1000s of shots as the bow flexes through various states of tension and back again

(parts of guns also wear out if they are used enough, but, guns have many parts, so the gun can stay 'this gun' in the Ship of Perseus fashion as it gets different new parts at different times)

So I still don't find it particularly likely in a 'realistic' campaign (though admittedly, the chances of me running a realistic campaign are somewhere between slim to none, so I'm not to worried about it)
Swords aren't (remotely) indestructible and immune to wear either. But a lot of them stayed in service considerably longer than their bearers survived.
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:52 AM   #103
Adversary
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
I really hate the mad reliance on weapon bond

Not everyone should be using weapon bond. Most weapons should just be random weapons you are using today, that you may get broken or find a better one tomorrow
I agree that not everyone should take it, both from a practical and from a role-playing perspective. For instance, Han Solo always uses the same blaster (except when disguised as a stormtrooper), and it looks like a special, tricked-out gun. Luke and Leia, on the other hand, shoot whatever they pick up. In fantasy settings, Conan uses a wide variety of weapons, often picking up something appropriate to the region he is in, e.g. a tulwar when riding with Turanian bandits. While the Grey Mouser always carries Scalpel and Cat's Claw.

Practically speaking, take say your typical Viking warrior. He's a utility infielder, using a shield for rushes and bashes, an axe for throwing, a spear in the shield wall, and a shortsword or long knife for close combat in the press, and is adept with some wrestling and brawling moves too. Not a good candidate for weapon bond. But then take a samurai. I know samurai used a variety of weapons including bows. But this samurai is a sword specialist, devoted to mastering and using his katana. He should take weapon bond. Ditto a master fencer. (Arya Stark, not a master, still probably has weapon bond--and sig grear--for Needle.)
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Old 07-19-2015, 11:55 AM   #104
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
(parts of guns also wear out if they are used enough, but, guns have many parts, so the gun can stay 'this gun' in the Ship of Perseus fashion as it gets different new parts at different times)
You'll replace springs and striking pins, sure, but 95% of the gun is going to last for decades. My brother has a 1922 Browning Auto-5 that he inherited from our great-grandfater and it still has the original receiver, barrel, foregrip, and stock. My brother still goes shooting with it regularly.
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Old 07-19-2015, 01:12 PM   #105
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by Adversary View Post
I agree that not everyone should take it, both from a practical and from a role-playing perspective. For instance, Han Solo always uses the same blaster (except when disguised as a stormtrooper), and it looks like a special, tricked-out gun. Luke and Leia, on the other hand, shoot whatever they pick up. In fantasy settings, Conan uses a wide variety of weapons, often picking up something appropriate to the region he is in, e.g. a tulwar when riding with Turanian bandits. While the Grey Mouser always carries Scalpel and Cat's Claw.

Practically speaking, take say your typical Viking warrior. He's a utility infielder, using a shield for rushes and bashes, an axe for throwing, a spear in the shield wall, and a shortsword or long knife for close combat in the press, and is adept with some wrestling and brawling moves too. Not a good candidate for weapon bond. But then take a samurai. I know samurai used a variety of weapons including bows. But this samurai is a sword specialist, devoted to mastering and using his katana. He should take weapon bond. Ditto a master fencer. (Arya Stark, not a master, still probably has weapon bond--and sig grear--for Needle.)
Thing is even while I agree samurai are identified more with a particular sword, a Viking is likely to treasure and hand down a sword as well.
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Old 07-19-2015, 02:00 PM   #106
fredtheobviouspseudonym
 
Join Date: May 2007
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?
More than one.

Real case -- c. 1973 there was an undercover LEO trying to get a drug dealer to say something to get the latter indicted. Drug dealer discovers LEO is wearing a wire.

Both pull out their handguns (a Chief's Special for the LEO, a pot-metal .25 ACP for the drug guy) and empty them at each other.

Range: 3 feet. No grappling or parries with arms -- just shooting. Total shots fired -- 11. Total hits -- one (1). Fortunately for the LEO he hit and the drug dealer was sufficiently wounded not to fight any more -- or reload.

Another case -- I witnessed two guys shooting at each other (paintball) at an identical range. Now a paintball gun isn't a high-accuracy weapon but its practical accuracy to hit a standing human at 3 feet is about that of an Olympic target weapon -- just fine.

Both shots missed.

Note -- while both shooters were excited no mortal threat was involved.

So it happens more than you would think.

Last edited by fredtheobviouspseudonym; 07-19-2015 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:34 PM   #107
Culture20
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Thing is even while I agree samurai are identified more with a particular sword, a Viking is likely to treasure and hand down a sword as well.
And name it. And name his shield, boots, and helmet.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:08 PM   #108
Phoenix_Dragon
 
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

There are probably hundreds of videos available of people shooting with abysmal accuracy, even when nobody is shooting back. Especially with criminals who likely have only default skill level. People see something that's easy to do in calm, non-confrontational situations, assume it's going to be just as easy in stressful situations, and then find out just how wrong they are.

It's especially bad with default shooters. They're scary, and it's the kind of scary where even standing well behind them doesn't necessarily help. I've seen an inexperienced shooter attempt a "can't miss" shot with a shotgun against a decent-sized tree maybe 15 feet away, with all the time in the world to aim. She did manage to hit the tree... about ten feet above her actual target. If she shot at a person six feet away, she would have missed.

I think my favorite example of missing a "can't miss" target, though, was a video I saw of someone attempting to kill a bus driver. Now, the driver was sitting, buckled in. He couldn't move. The guy came up to the doorway, pointed his gun at the driver with the muzzle less than three feet from his target, and fired several times. Not a single round hit.

Hell, people miss shots when firing into crowds.

Missing close-range shots isn't unusual.
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:13 PM   #109
TJA
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by roguebfl View Post
Using the two 150 point character I quoted before again starting at the 200 yards you specified.
Ohhhhh, i love that!
Thank you!

Did you use a program or spreadsheet?
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Old 07-19-2015, 04:15 PM   #110
TJA
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

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Originally Posted by Noctifer View Post
Every time I try to find a rule at the game table, I often start gnashing my teeth at how much flippage has to occur. By way of example... look up 'Jumping' in the index (which, actually, is done well)... four different pages spread across two books!?

My speech sind year.

GURPS needs better consolidation of rules.
And, if required, more redundancy - write that sentence everywhere, where it is need - or make sure that all rules are building blocks and that sit near each other.

My favorites:

1) Slam Attack or Collision Damage - you need literaly hours to solve that.

2) Large Scale damage - from fire ... you will not be able to solve that.
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