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Old 04-19-2012, 01:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
Follow-up, Universal, +50% (p. PU4-14)

Allows your innate attack to act as a follow-up to any unarmed or melee attack. Thus you can "touch" (ST 0 punch) for regular innate attack damage (technically it's a follow-up, but if the "carrier" does no damage then the follow-up is just a regular attack), punch with innate attack follow-up, or use a melee weapon with innate attack follow-up.
Yes, that looks like exactly what I wanted, thanks! :D I would probably want to limit it to only being allowed to follow melee attacks, so may change cost to +30 or 40%....

Also, another thing has occured to me - if the character has multiple innate attacks with this enhancement (e.g. separate burning, affliction, corrosion, etc. attacks) it looks like there is no reason I couldn't use them all at once? This seems like I have missed something.... if not, would that just be another limitation 'Only one follow up allowed per attack' for say -5%?
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
Yes, that looks like exactly what I wanted, thanks! :D I would probably want to limit it to only being allowed to follow melee attacks, so may change cost to +30 or 40%....

Also, another thing has occured to me - if the character has multiple innate attacks with this enhancement (e.g. separate burning, affliction, corrosion, etc. attacks) it looks like there is no reason I couldn't use them all at once? This seems like I have missed something.... if not, would that just be another limitation 'Only one follow up allowed per attack' for say -5%?
if he has multiple similar, related attacks, and he can only use one at a time, then they should be candidates for Alternative Attacks...
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by munin View Post
Follow-up, Universal, +50% (p. PU4-14)

Allows your innate attack to act as a follow-up to any unarmed or melee attack. Thus you can "touch" (ST 0 punch) for regular innate attack damage (technically it's a follow-up, but if the "carrier" does no damage then the follow-up is just a regular attack), punch with innate attack follow-up, or use a melee weapon with innate attack follow-up.
I'd add Selective to this, so the character could have an option to not use the burning attack.
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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
if he has multiple similar, related attacks, and he can only use one at a time, then they should be candidates for Alternative Attacks...
And if those are not really AAs, I'd give -10% Accessibility on each.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

If the attack is a follow up, should it still have the 'melee attack' limitation? Or does follow up overrule any melee/range/area etc. modifiers, in the same way it can't be combined with other penetration modifiers
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:01 AM   #15
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
If the attack is a follow up, should it still have the 'melee attack' limitation? Or does follow up overrule any melee/range/area etc. modifiers, in the same way it can't be combined with other penetration modifiers
For the Ops build it shouldn't since he wants it as a ranged attack option.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

Follow-Up can't have Melee Attack limitation (per Follow-Up,p. B105, 4th paragraph). But if it has Selectivity, it can include Melee Capable enhancement, it just cant work together with Follow-Up then (p. P105).
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by Gnomasz View Post
Follow-Up can't have Melee Attack limitation (per Follow-Up,p. B105, 4th paragraph). But if it has Selectivity, it can include Melee Capable enhancement, it just cant work together with Follow-Up then (p. P105).
Ah yes, apparently I can't read :)

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For the Ops build it shouldn't since he wants it as a ranged attack option.
I am the OP :) The comment about ranged stuff in the first post was more of a follow up question - the main thing I want to do is link the melee attacks. Given the requirements of Follow-Up, it looks like having the option of a ranged attack as well (which is not linked to weapons) would have to be an entirely separate Innate Attack, as an alternate ability.

So, final advantage would be something like:

Flame Strike: Burning Attack 2d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Accessibility: not with ranged attacks -10%; Accessibility: only when not using other channeled powers - 10%, Selectivity +10%) [14]

meaning I can punch people, stab them, punch and set on fire, or stab and set on fire all as a single Attack action. If I shoot them with a crossbow, I can't apply the extra damage. If I also have similar abilities for 'Paralyzing Grasp' and 'Freezing Hands' I can only use one of the abilities at once; I'm not allowed to stab, set on fire, electrocute and freeze them all in single action... :D

EDIT: Just thought of another question! This ignores DR if the normal weapon attack succeeds - there are some situations where this probably shouldn't be the case, e.g. if I attack a Fire Elemental it shouldn't do full fire damage to it just because I happened to stab it first. I'm not really sure how to deal with this, Nuisance effect for "still suffers DR reduction from 'innate DR'" maybe?

Last edited by user-unknown; 04-19-2012 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Thought of something else!
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:47 PM   #18
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
Ah yes, apparently I can't read :)



I am the OP :) The comment about ranged stuff in the first post was more of a follow up question - the main thing I want to do is link the melee attacks. Given the requirements of Follow-Up, it looks like having the option of a ranged attack as well (which is not linked to weapons) would have to be an entirely separate Innate Attack, as an alternate ability.

So, final advantage would be something like:

Flame Strike: Burning Attack 2d (Follow-Up, Universal + 50%; Accessibility: not with ranged attacks -10%; Accessibility: only when not using other channeled powers - 10%, Selectivity +10%) [14]


EDIT: Just thought of another question! This ignores DR if the normal weapon attack succeeds - there are some situations where this probably shouldn't be the case, e.g. if I attack a Fire Elemental it shouldn't do full fire damage to it just because I happened to stab it first. I'm not really sure how to deal with this, Nuisance effect for "still suffers DR reduction from 'innate DR'" maybe?
that is a case of the elemental needing DR vs Fire only. so even thought your knife hurts it, your follow up flames have to over come the DR vs it. or you can give them IT:DR vs FIre/Heat, that makes any attack that deals burning damage or heat (FP lost due to heat etc) not as strong. so:

DR X
DR vs element 2X
IT"DR vs element 1/Y

that is what I would give any elemental
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
that is a case of the elemental needing DR vs Fire only. so even thought your knife hurts it, your follow up flames have to over come the DR vs it. or you can give them IT:DR vs FIre/Heat, that makes any attack that deals burning damage or heat (FP lost due to heat etc) not as strong. so:

DR X
DR vs element 2X
IT"DR vs element 1/Y

that is what I would give any elemental
The Body of Fire elemental trait given in the Basic book has DR vs Fire/Heat, but the way 'Follow-Up' is described, follow up attacks ignore all DR completely so it doesn't quite work :(

However, giving elementals IT:DR as well as normal DR would work fine for my purposes. I'm not quite sure whether Follow-Up is meant to overcome that too - IMHO it makes sense that it doesn't, and since I'm the GM I can just make a House Rule to make it clear :) (My game is going to involve elementals quite heavily so this will be very useful!)
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:54 PM   #20
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Default Re: Channeling Innate Attacks (PU4)

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Originally Posted by user-unknown View Post
However, giving elementals IT:DR as well as normal DR would work fine for my purposes. I'm not quite sure whether Follow-Up is meant to overcome that too
IT:DR reduces injury. This is a very important technical difference from regular DR, which reduces damage.

Follow-up bypasses DR, but still goes through the normal rules to convert from damage to injury - a Follow-up cutting attack against the torso has its damage multiplied by 1.5 to produce Injury, a follow-up cutting attack against the neck has its damage multiplied by 2 to produce injury. Innate Attacks only apply damage. IT:DR only works on injury.

Which is incidentally why you can't somehow layer IT:DR "over" DR any more than you can layer "IT: No Brain" over DR.

So no, Follow-up doesn't bypass any of the Injury Tolerances.
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