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Old 06-07-2022, 02:39 AM   #1
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

Hello Folks,
This is being placed in GURPS because of the discussion aspect of the GURPS MAGIC rules. It could just as equally go into the ROLEPLAYING area due to some of what will be discussed here.

Alaconius, as you may or may not know, was a name given to a fictional mage who taught about spells as if the world he lived in, had functional magic. The idea was to talk about each of the spells within the college and discuss various aspects of the spell itself, its impact on society, and whether or not the spell could be used in creative manners outside of its intended role. It was based almost solely upon GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition, as - at that time, I considered GURPS GRIMOIRE to be a bit problematical with its spells. By problematical, some spells were not, in my opinion, well thought out or well play tested. That being said, the new Lectures will focus upon my thoughts in general, and will include those spells from GURPS MAGIC for 4e.

I'm getting back into the mindset of "Alaconius" largely due to some one on one interaction with another individual - who has taken it upon himself to host the older lectures on his web site - with some editorial work thrown in, plus some graphics as well. He has other work up there that may be worth looking into such as SPELL DEVELOPMENT HISTORY

In the end? He and I have had some FUN discussions about magic, and he was the one who more or less prodded me into resuming the concept of the Alaconius lectures. It will be a collaborative effort on our part - but we're also of a mind to expand on something that had been intended from the start of the lectures: To wit - having others act as guest lecturers...

To that end? For this thread, I'd like to lay some groundwork. If you have a question about any GURPS MAGIC spells from the Healing college, pick a character name for the person asking this question. If you want to comment about the use of spells - pick a name for the character who might make such a comment. Why?

As I write the lectures going forward, I'd like to include names of "students" or names of "Other established mages" who might take on the role of teachers.

We won't take on the role HERE per se, but we will hopefully, be able to have fun with this thread as we explore various aspects of the spells in the Healing college.

For instance, in one book that I came across, the author wrote about the art of medieaval surgery in the form of removal of Kidney stones from patients. The success rate was about 15% - killing about 85% of its patients! Imagine if you will, a campaign world in which GURPS MAGIC functions as written, where a surgeon can remove a kidney stone without the patient feeling pain, and without the patient having to worry about getting infections that kill him/her after the surgery. Now further imagine a in this thread, the discussion of why the spell may have been developed. For instance, in the beginning, no spells existed. One day, someone invents the very first Healing spell. Why was that spell invented? What was necessary for that spell to not only become embedded within society, but why was that spell remembered and taught to subsequent students of magic?

If you like the idea of this thread, join in and contribute. If you have questions, feel free to ask. If you wonder "does a healing spell fix problems or does it heal the flesh only" - ask it. Is it possible for a character with a broken leg to have healing cast on his body, only to have a crippled leg because it wasn't set properly before it was healed? GOOD question! If a mage fails to diagnose a disease properly and tries to cast cure disease, what happens next?

In the end? Those things discussed in this thread will eventually work their way into an Alaconius lecture in the future. The idea here is to discuss things and make it a resource for people in the future.
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Old 06-07-2022, 03:08 AM   #2
hal
 
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Default Re: Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

Body Reading:
As a spell, this is clearly an important spell for the caster himself, but how might it impact on the world in general? Without getting into too much details on its requisite spells or its energy cost - let's look more at what it can do to a society that has it, and what would be required to make it useful in other ways. For instance, this is both visual and tactile in function for the mage who casts it. Early physicians for instance, would probe a wound with their fingers or what have you, and being able to feel how an organ feels - is important simply because it is non-invasive.

But what of its implications? In an era where physiology did not exist - having the ability to map out various aspects of a living body can not be under-estimated. But of even more importance, is the ability of a mage who also knows the spell Illusion, can now display what he saw - for others to see. This is important because a non-mage artist for example, can capture what was seen by the mage for illustrations in future medical texts.

Major arteries can be mapped. Organ placement can be mapped. Detailed illustrations of organs can be made by someone who will never otherwise see such things.

Now, try to imagine what this means to a TL 0 society. By the time we hit into TL 2, how much of a body of science will a TL 2 society have amassed over time? Physician as a skill where magic works, will quickly be able to bypass the quackery of the four humors style of medicine and actively be functional.

So, let's look at the spell requisites along with the ideas necessary for even wanting to INVENT such a spell.

Requisite wise, this spell only needs Sense Life or Awaken. From my perspective as Hal (as opposed to Alaconius), the Awaken spell seems to be an odd choice. The fun part in all of this is that Sense life is capable of being studied and cast by non-mages in a mana high area. When GURPS MAGIC first came into being, Magery was either No Magery, Magery 1, Magery 2, and Magery 3. In later iterations of Magic, it became No Magery, Magery 0, Magery 1, Magery 2, Magery 3, and Magery 4+ (depending on the game world design).

So, how does the spell Detect Life have any level of "X-ray" functionality? Hard to say, and I'm not going to debate its validity one way or another. But I will say this...

Who would possibly have a need for a non-invasive method of seeing the insides of a living being? Clearly, a physician would have a need for the spell, which would imply that this spell could not be envisioned, let alone researched - until the science of the times found a need. Because Sense Life itself, has no pre-requisites, Sense Life would by its definition, be an easily researched early spell.

Now, for alternative uses. If someone were to ask you "does this spell have to be used on a living creature, or can it be cast upon a dead one?" You may have to take a moment and pause before answering.

Technically, there is no such limit on the use of this spell on any given creature's state of life when it is cast. One could use this spell to determine if a creature has defects before you even purchase it. One could use the spell to determine why a creature died, or even why a human died. Could it be used on a creature that had been dead for a month? If so, what would it discover from a month long dead body?

These are all questions that should leap into the mind of a world building GM who wants to try and decide whether or not he wants this spell in his campaign world. There are other questions that come to my mind as far as the spell description goes...

Why does this spell grant a bonus to any further diagnosis rolls or poisons rolls? Put another way - for this spell to grant those bonuses, one would have to wonder if the user has to be a student of medicine and practice their skills by constantly comparing what is known vs what is unknown. Finding an organ that was impacted by poison - at a time where you've never encountered such a condition, should be unfamiliar to the spell caster. If he's never seen cancer before, he shouldn't be able to conclude the condition is cancer so much as a massive growth of tissue. Would a spell caster be able to know what is normal and what is not normal in the use of this spell - ie a normal liver, a normal heart, etc?

As a GM, I would question whether or not this spell actively works well unless the character casting the spell has built up an experience base (like an X-Ray technician) on what something should look like or not look like. Absent a skill as might be the case with an X-ray technician or a doctor used to working with x-rays, this spell should not provide the bonuses at all. But, that's just me.

Thoughts? Ideas?
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Newest Alaconius Lecture now up:

https://www.worldanvil.com/w/scourge-of-shards-schpdx

Go to bottom of page to see lectures 1-11
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Old 06-07-2022, 04:10 AM   #3
hal
 
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Default Re: Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

Final Rest.

This is one spell that I looked at and thought "This does not belong in the college of Healing at all." It is a protective spell of sorts in that it prevents the body it is cast upon, from being used in a necromantic ritual or as the target of a necromantic spell. It does not mend the body, nor does it affect the health of the deceased body. It does not preserve the body for later resurrection. In short, I find it difficult to believe that this spell is a healing spell outright. That being said, rules as written specifies that it is indeed, a healing spell.

What I find interesting about the spell cost is this: It costs as much as a regeneration spell. It costs 2.5 times the energy to defeat all attempts of the necromantic spell "ZOMBIE". The question that I'm sure will be raised by those who are creating mage characters is this:

Why would I take this spell? If for instance, the GM were to state that in order for my character to have been a shaman who protected his tribe - it would be required due to the role of my character. But would I pick up the spell for use as an adventuring mage with a limited point budget? Probably not. If what happens to the soul after death is a function of religion, this spell might very well be the domain of religious miracles than of actual spell casting. In a campaign in which zombies are a regular danger, as a preventative, it would be little different than say, hallowed ground.

So, who would have wanted to develop this spell, and why? Analysis of the prerequisites show that this spell has no real prerequisite aside from either of Magery or spirit emapthy. In short, this could easily be researched by a mage in a TL 0 society, let alone subsequent tech levels.

See associated thread "Walk me through Inventing the first spell" for issues involving inventing new spells...

Me? I generally run a GURPS 3.5 version where I utilize mostly GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition concepts alongside some of the GURPS MAGIC for 4e concepts. I generally disallow spells from GURPS GRIMOIRE unless it has been vetted first (which means that while I vet the spells, I do allow some of the grimoire based spell list now combined into GURPS MAGIC for 4e).

In the end? Analysis wise, this spell tends to be utilized by NPC mages rather than by player character mages, and as such, serves the role of something only a guardian against the dead might employ.
__________________
Newest Alaconius Lecture now up:

https://www.worldanvil.com/w/scourge-of-shards-schpdx

Go to bottom of page to see lectures 1-11
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Old 06-07-2022, 05:40 AM   #4
maximara
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Default Re: Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

The GURPSwiki Magery 0 Magic in World Building page lists (hopefully) all the spells that only require Magery 0 (or can be cast in high mana areas)

Classic: Ice Age throw a huge monkey wrench into things.

For example, take Enchantment: "Magic items in shamanistic magic are not tools manufactured by wizards. Rather, they have inherent magical or spiritual power, affecting anyone who touches or uses them. Such items are very rare, and always natural in origin, though they may have been reshaped by humans." (pg 35)

There are supposed to be 16 spells "available" in the Pleistocene Epoch (2,580,000 to c 11,700 years ago) but only 14 are actually listed: Aura, Banish, Bless, Banish, Curse, Death Vision, Divination, Exorcism, Healing, Pestilence, Remove Curse, Remove Pestilence Object, Spirit Trap, Summon Spirit. (pg 36-37)

IMHO something more akin to Path and Books Ritual Magic rather than the "standard" magic system which really messes things up as that is a totally different mechanic.

Classic: Egypt listed the following (numbers are the Prerequisite Count):
*Book of Coming Forth By Day (Egyptian Book of the Dead)
**Coming Forth By Day (1)
**Not Allowing The Heart To Speak The Truth (1)
**Ushabti (15)
*Amduat (That Which is in the Underworld)
*Book of Gates
*Book of Overthrowing Apep
*Book of the Divine Cow
*Litany of Re.
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Old 06-09-2022, 01:46 PM   #5
johndallman
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Default Re: Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Final Rest . . .

In the end? Analysis wise, this spell tends to be utilized by NPC mages rather than by player character mages, and as such, serves the role of something only a guardian against the dead might employ.
The Path/Book ritual Lay to Rest (Thaumatology, p. 162) is substantially easier, but less absolute in its effects: attempts to contact the departed spirit have to win a contest with the ritual.

In a magic-as-powers campaign, I came up with an enhancement to Medium for the same job:

Help Onwards Allows you to show a newly dead spirit how to move onwards, or force it by winning a Quick Contest of Will, where the spirit is at +1 per week it has been dead without moving on. If it moves on, you can cut its ties to the material, preventing it from being brought back. +50%

The point was to make sure that certain villains didn't come back, which is the players' reason for taking any of these abilities.
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Old 06-09-2022, 01:55 PM   #6
Plane
 
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Default Re: Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
The GURPSwiki Magery 0 Magic in World Building page lists (hopefully) all the spells that only require Magery 0 (or can be cast in high mana areas)
what about Least of Spells which can be cast w/o magery in Normal Mana?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Classic: Ice Age throw a huge monkey wrench into things.

For example, take Enchantment: "Magic items in shamanistic magic are not tools manufactured by wizards. Rather, they have inherent magical or spiritual power, affecting anyone who touches or uses them. Such items are very rare, and always natural in origin, though they may have been reshaped by humans." (pg 35)

There are supposed to be 16 spells "available" in the Pleistocene Epoch (2,580,000 to c 11,700 years ago) but only 14 are actually listed: Aura, Banish, Bless, Banish, Curse, Death Vision, Divination, Exorcism, Healing, Pestilence, Remove Curse, Remove Pestilence Object, Spirit Trap, Summon Spirit. (pg 36-37)

IMHO something more akin to Path and Books Ritual Magic rather than the "standard" magic system which really messes things up as that is a totally different mechanic.

Classic: Egypt listed the following (numbers are the Prerequisite Count):
*Book of Coming Forth By Day (Egyptian Book of the Dead)
**Coming Forth By Day (1)
**Not Allowing The Heart To Speak The Truth (1)
**Ushabti (15)
*Amduat (That Which is in the Underworld)
*Book of Gates
*Book of Overthrowing Apep
*Book of the Divine Cow
*Litany of Re.
Sounds like if these aren't made by wizards they'd be made via the options on Thaumatology 110 like "Enchantment Through Age" or "Enchantment Through Deeds" or "Traumatic Enchantment" or "Devotional Enchantment".
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Old 06-09-2022, 07:12 PM   #7
maximara
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Default Re: Healing spells in GURPS MAGIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
what about Least of Spells which can be cast w/o magery in Normal Mana?
They are in the list thought I felt that simply shifting magery requirements around (Magery 0 didn't exist when the spell lists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Sounds like if these aren't made by wizards they'd be made via the options on Thaumatology 110 like "Enchantment Through Age" or "Enchantment Through Deeds" or "Traumatic Enchantment" or "Devotional Enchantment".
It is hard to tell how in 4e they would be modeled as when Classic: Ice Age came out even Classic: Religion didn't exist and while Classic: Egypt post dated Religion it still used Mana based magic.

As I mentioned before in various threads Classic's had a really weird option for "Clerical" magic - non mages could casts spells as if they were mages (ie they used mana)

Mechanically I think Path and Books make the most sense for Classic: Egypt and perhaps for Ice Age too. With so few spells it is hard to figure out how they would be modeled in 4e.
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