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Old 06-10-2014, 07:19 AM   #1
smathers
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

I think most of the Ogre fans here would agree that ODE was an incredible bargain and one of the best deals ever to be seen on Kickstarter. It became so big that lot of Kickstarter sponsors would have backed out because they didn't have the funding or manpower to complete it, but SJ Games persevered and delivered a first class product. It was a gift for the faithful and a chance for Evil Stevie to work on one of his first (and favorite?) games.

The Kickstarter also showed that there was still a lot of life left in Ogre and did a lot to revitalize it. Based on comments from SJ Games staff, I think it was much bigger than they expected and I think that additional Kickstarters for expansions to ODE are worth considering.

What I'm suggesting here is that SJ Games price these Kickstarters to make money. The idea is that the Kickstarter would prepay the development costs and then SJ Games could decide how many extra copies to print for retail sales. We, the fans of Ogre, would vote with our Kickstarter support on whether it is worth doing.

Each Kickstarter should be relatively small. Maybe two to four counter sheets with a pamphlet of rules and scenarios. This keeps things manageable and prevents them from disrupting other product lines.

It would take the risk out of the deal for SJ Games because they should be able to estimate how many copies they need to print based on Kickstarter participation and a percentage of the numbers of ODE sets that sold at retail.

And, if a Kickstarter fails because we don't meet the minimum, then it is a clear demonstration to ODE fans that we just don't have enough interest to justify additional resources from SJ Games.

I would suggest that any stretch goals be very cost effective so that no matter how many copies sell in the Kickstarter, it doesn't substantially change the profit margin. Maybe extra scenarios or other additions that don't substantially change the materials cost.

I'm not a game designer and I've never worked in "the industry", so I could be missing something here, but this seems like a win-win. A chance for ODE fans to get more Ogre without much risk to SJ Games. I'm sure that SJ Games staff are already considering a number of options and expansions and I'm confident that there are good things in store no matter what though. I am looking forward to hearing more about them when the stars are right.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:38 AM   #2
Buzzardo
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

One word: Maps*.

We have enough units to play out huge forces engaging one another. And we (individually and as a community) can always write scenarios. But maps are another matter.

I would love to see maps (and movement rules) for mountainous terrain, arctic terrain, and desert terrain.

Large collections of overlays would also be welcome.

*Everyone who knows me knew I'd say that. :)
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

Maps definitely.

I would also like to see some of the specialized units (Rangers, Engineers, etc.) for the factions (Nihon, Vatican Guard, etc.)
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:42 PM   #4
smathers
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzardo View Post
One word: Maps*.

I would love to see maps (and movement rules) for mountainous terrain, arctic terrain, and desert terrain.

Large collections of overlays would also be welcome.

*Everyone who knows me knew I'd say that. :)
I can NEVER have too many units. Especially if they are faction based and have minor variations. I realize this plays havoc with things like the Ogre War Room app, but it adds depth for me.

Yes, alternate terrain maps and interesting overlays would also be interesting. Especially if they incorporate new tactical environments.

Overlays are good if they offer something new. The existing ones have the basics covered pretty well.
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Old 06-10-2014, 02:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

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Originally Posted by Thirdpower View Post
Maps definitely.

I would also like to see some of the specialized units (Rangers, Engineers, etc.) for the factions (Nihon, Vatican Guard, etc.)
Right. I could easily see this getting into expansions for the expansions assuming that new "official" unit types are developed over the next few years.

I think everything depends on how whether SJ Games can consistently sell enough of a set to make justify the layout, design, and printing costs and I have no idea what the breakpoints are, but I think that is where using Kickstarter as a measure of demand could really pay off.

I mean, Ogre is probably never going to be another Munchkin, but I think it could continue to turn a modest profit and I remember reading somewhere that more Ogre makes Steve happy.
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Old 06-10-2014, 11:13 PM   #6
schemaman
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

I know most of this thread is around maps, but I would vote for an Ogre fiction/backstory Kickstarter. I have been a fan of the game for a long while, but I really like the story that goes with it. Maybe some kind of book that has stories written by published sci-fi writers like David Drake as well as some stories from fans. Hopefully, some of the stories in a Ogre fiction book could become themed expansions with new maps, scenarios, etc.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

Some ficiton would be nice but I don't think it would have the same appeal and reach the same level of sales as any supplements. However, why not (as a bonus) have some short stories/background info included in with any expansions? Something that would explain or put into context the units in the expansion, the area they are fighting in and why they are fighting. Just a thought... <shrugs>

I'd like to see some new units, and expand the optiosn for some of the current forces. But as most of the other posters in this thread I'd REALLY like to see more maps and overlays.

And of course, plastic miniatures. :)
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Old 06-11-2014, 07:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

Fiction would be awesome, but guys that's something we can do, if we have a cool idea for a story why not try and write it ourselves, sure it might now be award winning but no reason why we can't collaborate with each other.

Personally I don't think it's a doable idea, the cost of these packs will be rather high given the relatively low user base, personally I would rather see a larger expansion, with a map and units that is standalone not requiring ODE and proved sensibly, so SJG makes a profit and could form the basis for keeping the ODE style game going with further small expansion packs, assault packs and if sales allow resin/plastic minis.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:19 PM   #9
Buzzardo
 
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schemaman View Post
I know most of this thread is around maps, but I would vote for an Ogre fiction/backstory Kickstarter. I have been a fan of the game for a long while, but I really like the story that goes with it. Maybe some kind of book that has stories written by published sci-fi writers like David Drake as well as some stories from fans. Hopefully, some of the stories in a Ogre fiction book could become themed expansions with new maps, scenarios, etc.
Having just finished David Weber's Bolo! and Old Soldiers, I would love to see some high-quality Ogre fiction. If SJG could convince an author such as Weber or Scalzi to undertake such a thing, I'd back that Kickstarter project in a heartbeat. :)
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ideas for Ogre Designers Edition Expansions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigGeordieGeek View Post
Fiction would be awesome, but guys that's something we can do, if we have a cool idea for a story why not try and write it ourselves, sure it might now be award winning but no reason why we can't collaborate with each other.

Personally I don't think it's a doable idea, the cost of these packs will be rather high given the relatively low user base, personally I would rather see a larger expansion, with a map and units that is standalone not requiring ODE and proved sensibly, so SJG makes a profit and could form the basis for keeping the ODE style game going with further small expansion packs, assault packs and if sales allow resin/plastic minis.
My vision of this whole Ogre experience is sort of like seeing a kind of medium weight Burmese python take on a largish alligator.

With a little luck, it's totally doable, pythons are amazing.

However.

Said python is not going to be moving very quickly for a while. Possibly a longish while. It has to move a whole alligator.

So, SJG is sort of like that python, and Ogre like the alligator.

Given enough time, the python will be hungry again, and will be a bigger badder python as a result of all that alligator.

I suspect once all the current Ogre Kickstarter "alligator" is finally processed (heh), Mr. Jackson will, at some point, get hungry again, and maybe, just maybe, we'll see more Ogre.

But the Kickstarter goals aren't quite done, and they need to be done first, for everyone's sake.
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