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Old 06-09-2021, 12:07 PM   #31
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by Whitewings View Post
The powerstone will only recharge while on or under the sea. Yes, this includes a below-sea-level basement in a building on an island. Considering how hard it is even now to build and waterproof such a thing, that's not exactly a "cheat"
Or, if you're in Death Valley
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:16 PM   #32
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

One of my biggest problems with QUIRKS are these:

What is the true valuation of any given quirked powerstone. Some quirks BADLY render the power stone unfit for use, while others are only mild inconveniences.

How is it that a non-enchanting spell can cause a quirk to an enchantment? To put this in perspective, that would be like being able to create an enchanted bane sword, only to cast a light spell on it, get a critical failure and now the bane sword is quirked. Enchantments are long term, Faster recharge rates by use of a spell is not an enchantment.

The original limitation on the size of a power stone was its size in carats. With the loosening of that restriction by paying 4x the energy cost, why are powerstones still valued at size of carats with exponential costs? Gemstones are as costly as they are due to how hard it is to mine them, how common or are they are, and how much of a demand the market has for those gemstones. But if mageborn only forms 2% of the general population - how can they drive the price of gemstones any much higher than ordinary nobility or rich people?

Seriously, how many mage born characters purchase more than say, 3 or 4 powerstones? **shrug**

Until GURPS comes up with a way to properly evaluate the value of a quirk that renders the power stone limited, I think that quirked powerstones was a bad idea.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:36 PM   #33
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
One of my biggest problems with QUIRKS are these:

What is the true valuation of any given quirked powerstone. Some quirks BADLY render the power stone unfit for use, while others are only mild inconveniences.

How is it that a non-enchanting spell can cause a quirk to an enchantment? .
Um...what? So far as I know quirked powerstones are the product of messing up an enchantment roll. Since there are a LOT of rolls made in enchanting a large stone, most large stones are quirked.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:51 PM   #34
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Um...what? So far as I know quirked powerstones are the product of messing up an enchantment roll. Since there are a LOT of rolls made in enchanting a large stone, most large stones are quirked.
Charge Powerstone (first presented in GURPS GRIMOIRE, also carried over in GURPS MAGIC for 4e) states that:

"On any ordinary failure with this spell, the Powerstone gains a new quirk ("

This spell is a regular spell, and it defers the recharging of a powerstone such that if you "Borrowed" on future recharge by 2 energy faster than normal recharge would have given you, then your powerstone will not charge for 2 days, and only on the third day, begin to charge normally.
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Old 06-09-2021, 05:35 PM   #35
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Charge Powerstone (first presented in GURPS GRIMOIRE, also carried over in GURPS MAGIC for 4e) states that:

"On any ordinary failure with this spell, the Powerstone gains a new quirk ("

This spell is a regular spell, and it defers the recharging of a powerstone such that if you "Borrowed" on future recharge by 2 energy faster than normal recharge would have given you, then your powerstone will not charge for 2 days, and only on the third day, begin to charge normally.
Well that's not just casting a spell on the powerstone. You actually are messing with the enchantment.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:06 PM   #36
hal
 
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Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Well that's not just casting a spell on the powerstone. You actually are messing with the enchantment.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. That spell is listed as a regular spell, and is not an enchantment spell. In addition, its energy cost is a multiple of energy that the caster decides upon as far as how much energy the item will contain. Thus, at its lowest setting, the spell cost is only 3 energy.

Contrast this with REMOVE ENCHANTMENT, which itself, is an enchantment spell, with a minimum cost of 100 energy, along with penalties to skill roll at a rate of -3 per accumulated enchantment on the item. Thus, an item with five enchantments on it will be subjected to a cumulative -15 to the spell casting of Remove Enchantment. This is not including penalties for not being able to actively cast the enchantment in question (which pushes it up by an additional-3).

In short? The spell introduced in GURPS GRIMOIRE (back when GURPS 3e was the latest and greatest) violated the norms introduced in GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition.

I find that to be problematic overall, but concede that others may not find it as problematic "Structurally" as I do. There are those who figure "hey, they published it that way, that's good enough for me."

And - the good news is, yes, no GM is required to use it as written, and no team of Men-in-Black will show up to confiscate our gaming materials if we don't use the spell in GURPS GRIMOIRE as written.

Truth is though, the more this spell gets used, the more "Quirked" powerstones the "game unvierse" will have simply because of failed rolls of Charge Powerstone.

I seriously doubt ANYONE is going to risk "quirking" their powerstone that they paid a HUGE amount of money for just to get it to Powerstone that holds 30 energy (let alone the obscene costs for a gemstone of 30 carats).

But, that's just me. ;)
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:30 PM   #37
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on that one. That spell is listed as a regular spell, and is not an enchantment spell.
But it is messing with how an enchantment spell works. The enchantment spell turns the receptacle that contains power and recharges at set rate. And then you are vastly exceeding that rate.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:46 PM   #38
hal
 
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Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
But it is messing with how an enchantment spell works. The enchantment spell turns the receptacle that contains power and recharges at set rate. And then you are vastly exceeding that rate.
It is't messing with the ENCHANTMENT itself, it is messing with the natural process the enchanted item works through. If you wanted to say that a failure affects things, simply say that regardless of whether or not the spell succeeds in imparting energy, the "recharge process" is still harmed.

To use an analogy:

let's say you have a fine mesh of sorts where all of the holes point in the same direction. Each "hole" lets a stream of water go forwards from one side of the screen to the other.

Let's say that a "Quirk" bends or redirects the direction of flow of water such that instead of being perfectly foward, the Angle of travel for the waters starts shifting by a few degrees left, right, up, down - such that the flow its another flow.

When perfectly aligned, none of the water streams hit each other. When one stream gets out of alignment, it affects not only itself, but an adjacent stream as well. With me so far?

When you Force a change rate in recharge, all you're doing is affecting the Water itself. When you change/quirk the direction of the water flaw, you're affecting the enchantment itself.

One is a function of "Flow" the other is a function of structure directing the flow.

This is why I have a hard time accepting that a simple 3 point spell casting can directly affect an actual enchantment. The cost to even temporarily affect an enchantment (not even a permanent change to the enchantment) is 25 energy or 1/100th the cost to enchant the item in the first place).

The MAGNITUDE of energy cost here is nearly one order higher for a temporary suspension of the enchantment vs a permanent alteration for only 3 energy. 25 energy is 8 times higher than 3.

So - as I said, you're more than welcome to use the spell as written. If my assessment doesn't match yours, it is an honest disagreement that I can live with. I do know that had I actively enforced the rules for Powerstones as written, and actively quirked stones with the Charge Powerstone spell, NONE of my players would ever have taken that spell, let alone used it. It is like the concept that a given "advantage is worth X points" in absolute terms. Players who see what an advantage costs and refuse to buy it because it is too pricey, are the ones who determine what an advantage's true worth is - not some formula.

GURPS GRIMIORE had a troubled history from the start with multiple authors (if I recall correctly). When it came out, I took the time to analyze some of the spells and thought to myself that they were out of line with the costs and structure presented in the spells as given in the new book (at the time it was published) as compared against GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition.

But, that's just me - as more than a few people use GURPS MAGIC in all of its glory for their campaigns. For them, it isn't an issue and life is good. For me, it is an issue, and my fixes make it so that life is good for me. ;)
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:47 PM   #39
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
It is't messing with the ENCHANTMENT itself, it is messing with the natural process the enchanted item works through. If you wanted to say that a failure affects things, simply say that regardless of whether or not the spell succeeds in imparting energy, the "recharge process" is still harmed.

To use an analogy:

let's say you have a fine mesh of sorts where all of the holes point in the same direction. Each "hole" lets a stream of water go forwards from one side of the screen to the other.

Let's say that a "Quirk" bends or redirects the direction of flow of water such that instead of being perfectly foward, the Angle of travel for the waters starts shifting by a few degrees left, right, up, down - such that the flow its another flow.

When perfectly aligned, none of the water streams hit each other. When one stream gets out of alignment, it affects not only itself, but an adjacent stream as well. With me so far?

When you Force a change rate in recharge, all you're doing is affecting the Water itself. When you change/quirk the direction of the water flaw, you're affecting the enchantment itself.
So then it's impossible to "damage the mesh" by putting pressure on it?
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:16 PM   #40
PTTG
 
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Default Re: Can we have a powerstone quirk thread?

The powerstone generates heat when used in proportion to units of energy expended.

The powerstone attracts insects.

The stone whispers a constant stream of seeming nonsense.

If the owner has Indomitable or mental resistances, they have Unluckiness with regards to retaining ownership of the stone. (I.e., the powerstone tries to find a malleable owner)

The stone takes on the appearance of an organ, such as an eyeball, heart, shard of bone, or liver.

The stone grows cold while recharging.

The stone becomes permanently invisible.

The stone becomes intangible to animals except in direct sunlight.

The stone produces condensation as it charges.
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