Pricing/statting odd advantage idea

Flyndaran · 07-12-2021, 08:12 PM

I was thinking of a Buffy-verse character whose main power is just unkillable. But for weirdness' sake, I wondered how vampirism would affect them.
Just dying un-raisable is boring.

So what if instead they turn, but only until their natural Regeneration would have fixed them? Then they pop back up "human"?

Also what if their humanity recovers in tandem? As in they go from totally "soulless" initially, but regain it as they "heal"?

I have not a clue how to fully define the idea in Gurps' terms let alone price it.

Suggestions, musings, etc.?

Fred Brackin · 07-12-2021, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I was thinking of a Buffy-verse character whose main power is just unkillable. ?

You're thinking Unkillable 2, right? Unkillable 1 actually can die it's just very hard and UK3 doesn't usually leave a body behind.

So Buffyverse vampiric spirits and souls can co-habit. That makes it a question of when/if the vampspirit can animate the body and when/if it can be evicted.

I seem to recall a semi-traditional three day waiting period so yor UK guy can't regen very fast. There would defintely be conflict when the original soul tried to control the body again and probably a different sort when the normal metabolism tried to re-assert itself.

Even if the vampspirit holds on til the living body/soul can take over it defintely goes "Poof!" when sunlight hits it but presumably the body doesn't "dust".

Flyndaran · 07-12-2021, 09:46 PM

I was definitely thinking UK 3 or possibly 2. I think it's arguable on whether vampires turn the fully dead or just "mostly dead" victims.

Buffy's definition of souls was never at all consistent, so I think you and I can take which ever meaning we want without too much trouble.
Same goes for how long the turning process takes. Quite a few times, it's instant, and others long enough to have been buried.
I don't remember any dialogue mentioning or even questioning why though.

But I assume, instant and mostly dead just, so I could have this unkillable character turn partly/temporarily for "funsies".

Or we can divorce it from the Buffy-verse in case that's making my vague idea harder to explain.

Fred Brackin · 07-12-2021, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I was definitely thinking UK 3 or possibly 2. n.

Why UK3? The possessor of that Advantage doesn't go back to his old physical body even if he leaves one behind.

I suppose there'd be a body if the UK3 guy became a literal ghost rather than a being of pure energy or thought or whatever but except for the limited versions that require clone bodies or possess some other existing body UK3 leads to the owner getting a new body at a location of the GM's choosing.

Pursuivant · 07-13-2021, 04:52 AM

Recall that Buffy-verse vampires are actually dead bodies possessed by a particular type of demon. In some alternate planes, the dead body actually temporarily alters to show the demon's true form.

If a vampire-possessed body is somehow reunited with its soul, the soul quickly reasserts the original owner's personality, but also retains full memories of what the demon-possessed body did while the soul was gone. That knowledge can be horrifying, forcing the equivalent of a Fright Check. Additionally, the demon remains in the body, constantly attempting to reassert control when the owner's soul is weak. That's best modeled by disadvantages with very good self-control numbers.

I'd treat "Souless until fully regenerated" as a Quirk if it just leaves you open to supernatural attack or a Temporary Disadvantage if you suffer from an active personality change due to temporary demon possession.

While not present in GURPS 4E, GURPS 3E modeled "morally opposed" behavior - like the typical behavior of vampires in the Buffy-verse - as either a Compulsive Behavior with a base cost of -5 points or as a form of Split Personality. Add in additional Buffy-verse vampire traits like reduced IQ, Bad Temper, Berserk, Bully, Compulsive Behavior (Hunting, Territoriality), Overconfidence, Sadism, and Unnatural Appetite and you've got a very dangerous package of temporary problems to go with your Unkillable disad.

If you can shed your supernatural problems as you recover, either with improved self-control rolls or HT rolls to "shake off" a physical problem, I'd guess that the limitation value of any temporary disadvantages should be halved.

That assumes that at about 50% of the way through the regeneration process you've also shed about 50% of your temporary disads or are otherwise only affected by them half as often.

Varyon · 07-13-2021, 05:41 AM

Quite some time ago, when I designed my Feuyaner, I gave them an Aftermath* on their Unkillable 2, which I dubbed "Resurrection Sickness" - it caused an ST and DX penalty, as well as Increased Consumption, that roughly lasted as long as they were "dead." For your characters who lose their soul for a time if UK2 is triggered, I think you could use the same option, but replace the above traits with whatever you think is appropriate for someone who has lost their soul (probably gaining Bloodlust, Sadism, Callous, etc, or worsening the SC rolls for those who already had one or more of those traits).

*I actually called it "Backlash," but I'm pretty certain I meant Aftermath.

David Johnston2 · 07-13-2021, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I was definitely thinking UK 3 or possibly 2. I think it's arguable on whether vampires turn the fully dead or just "mostly dead" victims.

Buffy's definition of souls was never at all consistent, so I think you and I can take which ever meaning we want without too much trouble.
Same goes for how long the turning process takes. Quite a few times, it's instant, and others long enough to have been buried.
I don't remember any dialogue mentioning or even questioning why though.

But I assume, instant and mostly dead just, so I could have this unkillable character turn partly/temporarily for "funsies".

Or we can divorce it from the Buffy-verse in case that's making my vague idea harder to explain.

UK 3 would mean that it would get a new body while the vampire version would still be there. You could actually end up with a lot of vampires running around with your face.

Flyndaran · 07-13-2021, 11:28 AM

I probably shouldn't have invoked Buffy with how varied the canon is. But I suppose one other stumbling block I never considered is how I read UK 3.

I always took the new body to be fluff. The main gist I got was just that the character couldn't be contained, not necessarily that the original physical form was entirely separate from the "soul" and recovered form.

Otherwise you get the weird potential of having thousands upon thousands of corpses lying around. Or in this scenario and one interpretation of Buffy-canon, vampires.

Flyndaran · 07-13-2021, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

UK 3 would mean that it would get a new body while the vampire version would still be there. You could actually end up with a lot of vampires running around with your face.

If I went with that implied interpretation of canon, I still think the resulting vampire utterly devoid of humanity wouldn't be a normal vampire. Possibly more akin to the purely bestial unthinking versions from the later seasons of Buffy or how Angel regressed in Pylea.
That wouldn't make the issue much better, but it would be different and therefore interesting for gaming.

Pursuivant · 07-13-2021, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I probably shouldn't have invoked Buffy with how varied the canon is.

No prob. I realized that you were considering a "Buffy-verse-like" character. The basic concept of "Unkillable, but with severe problems until you're fully regenerated" is universal.

At the risk of invoking another media franchise, consider Captain Jack from the "Torchwood" series. He's got Regrowth, Regeneration, Unaging, and Unkillable 3, but he still has to spend a fair bit of time as a living partial corpse if he gets blown up and has to put himself back together. That means temporary missing limbs, Monstrous appearance, Mute, Chronic Pain, etc. depending on which bits have been vaporized.

A similar character would be Dr. Manhattan from "The Watchmen."

For UK3, having to reappear in the body of whatever intact corpse is nearest would be a more severe form of the Reincarnation limitation (Nuisance Effect?), possibly with a particular Corporeal Undead template as a required Feature of your Unkillable trait.

To represent permanent problems, like resurrection which costs character points (i.e., the cost of Extra Life) create a variant of the Nuisance Effect disadvantage based on number of lost character points. If the GM imposes disadvantages rather than taking levels of attributes, etc. it can be used to model a "Dorian Grey" character who is increasingly vulnerable to mental or physical decline over time.

Varyon's idea of the Aftermath limitation is also a good way to handle such characters.

It really depends on the precise character concept.

07-12-2021, 08:12 PM	#1
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Pricing/statting odd advantage idea I was thinking of a Buffy-verse character whose main power is just unkillable. But for weirdness' sake, I wondered how vampirism would affect them. Just dying un-raisable is boring. So what if instead they turn, but only until their natural Regeneration would have fixed them? Then they pop back up "human"? Also what if their humanity recovers in tandem? As in they go from totally "soulless" initially, but regain it as they "heal"? I have not a clue how to fully define the idea in Gurps' terms let alone price it. Suggestions, musings, etc.? __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

07-12-2021, 09:46 PM	#3
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Pricing/statting odd advantage idea I was definitely thinking UK 3 or possibly 2. I think it's arguable on whether vampires turn the fully dead or just "mostly dead" victims. Buffy's definition of souls was never at all consistent, so I think you and I can take which ever meaning we want without too much trouble. Same goes for how long the turning process takes. Quite a few times, it's instant, and others long enough to have been buried. I don't remember any dialogue mentioning or even questioning why though. But I assume, instant and mostly dead just, so I could have this unkillable character turn partly/temporarily for "funsies". Or we can divorce it from the Buffy-verse in case that's making my vague idea harder to explain. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

07-13-2021, 04:52 AM	#5
Pursuivant Join Date: Apr 2005	Re: Pricing/statting odd advantage idea Recall that Buffy-verse vampires are actually dead bodies possessed by a particular type of demon. In some alternate planes, the dead body actually temporarily alters to show the demon's true form. If a vampire-possessed body is somehow reunited with its soul, the soul quickly reasserts the original owner's personality, but also retains full memories of what the demon-possessed body did while the soul was gone. That knowledge can be horrifying, forcing the equivalent of a Fright Check. Additionally, the demon remains in the body, constantly attempting to reassert control when the owner's soul is weak. That's best modeled by disadvantages with very good self-control numbers. I'd treat "Souless until fully regenerated" as a Quirk if it just leaves you open to supernatural attack or a Temporary Disadvantage if you suffer from an active personality change due to temporary demon possession. While not present in GURPS 4E, GURPS 3E modeled "morally opposed" behavior - like the typical behavior of vampires in the Buffy-verse - as either a Compulsive Behavior with a base cost of -5 points or as a form of Split Personality. Add in additional Buffy-verse vampire traits like reduced IQ, Bad Temper, Berserk, Bully, Compulsive Behavior (Hunting, Territoriality), Overconfidence, Sadism, and Unnatural Appetite and you've got a very dangerous package of temporary problems to go with your Unkillable disad. If you can shed your supernatural problems as you recover, either with improved self-control rolls or HT rolls to "shake off" a physical problem, I'd guess that the limitation value of any temporary disadvantages should be halved. That assumes that at about 50% of the way through the regeneration process you've also shed about 50% of your temporary disads or are otherwise only affected by them half as often. Last edited by Pursuivant; 07-13-2021 at 05:04 AM.

07-13-2021, 05:41 AM	#6
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: Pricing/statting odd advantage idea Quite some time ago, when I designed my Feuyaner, I gave them an Aftermath* on their Unkillable 2, which I dubbed "Resurrection Sickness" - it caused an ST and DX penalty, as well as Increased Consumption, that roughly lasted as long as they were "dead." For your characters who lose their soul for a time if UK2 is triggered, I think you could use the same option, but replace the above traits with whatever you think is appropriate for someone who has lost their soul (probably gaining Bloodlust, Sadism, Callous, etc, or worsening the SC rolls for those who already had one or more of those traits). *I actually called it "Backlash," but I'm pretty certain I meant Aftermath. __________________ GURPS Overhaul

07-13-2021, 11:28 AM	#8
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Pricing/statting odd advantage idea I probably shouldn't have invoked Buffy with how varied the canon is. But I suppose one other stumbling block I never considered is how I read UK 3. I always took the new body to be fluff. The main gist I got was just that the character couldn't be contained, not necessarily that the original physical form was entirely separate from the "soul" and recovered form. Otherwise you get the weird potential of having thousands upon thousands of corpses lying around. Or in this scenario and one interpretation of Buffy-canon, vampires. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.