Engineer (Vehicle, broad class)

[MaryAnn]

Originally Posted by whswhs

That's what I had in mind when I said

I could make a case for considering everything but Hovercraft and Mecha to be a single broad class, just as aircraft from helicopters to fighter jets are a single broad class.

In that case, you would have Ground Vehicles, Hovercraft, and Mecha. Though Mecha might be folded into Engineer (Robotics).

Do you know how did this work in 3e? I remember to have seen in a book something like "Engineer (Watercraft)", Engineer (Spacecraft)", etc.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by MaryAnn

Do you know how did this work in 3e? I remember to have seen in a book something like "Engineer (Watercraft)", Engineer (Spacecraft)", etc.

I haven't looked at 3/e in more than a decade, so no.

[Rolando]

Originally Posted by MaryAnn

I see. By this you mean that there is no engineering specialty for, for example, Engineer (Melee Weapons), Engineer (Body Armor), Engineer (Vehicular Armor), etc.?

For those there is the Armory skill.

I can see in some campaigns that some GMs have Engineering skill for things like that and even other "crazier" cases (Engineering (fast food)) but as far as I think it is needed, there is no need for engineering skills for weapons, simple equipment or very simple vehicles like canoes, wood wagons and barges.

In the real world there may be some very abstract or particular engineering professions that have nothing to do with the GURPS Engineering skill.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Rolando

For those there is the Armory skill.

Armoury explicitly does not include design, which is says comes under Engineer. Presumably this would be Engineer (Body Armour).

Also, I'm rethinking my claim that Engineering for ships should be split into sailing and motorised, as the vehicle types given as examples are rather broad, and include 'Spaceships' and 'Ships'. This makes it a broader skill than Mechanic (and thus Pilot, etc.).

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rolando

For those there is the Armory skill.

I can see in some campaigns that some GMs have Engineering skill for things like that and even other "crazier" cases (Engineering (fast food)) but as far as I think it is needed, there is no need for engineering skills for weapons, simple equipment or very simple vehicles like canoes, wood wagons and barges.

In the real world there may be some very abstract or particular engineering professions that have nothing to do with the GURPS Engineering skill.

Armory is a 'repair' skill, not a 'design' skill. It's also an manufacturing skill, granted - but it specifically says "It does not include skill at design; for that, see Engineer, p. 190."

Engineer (Artillery) and Engineer (Small Arms) are right in Characters. And they're obviously necessary - Maxim, Browning, and Gatling are all noted for achievements in those areas. Engineer (Melee Weapons) makes sense to me though I think such engineering would be quite rare - in the modern era melee weapon designs aren't useful, and in historical periods few people would specifically learn how to design new ones. Engineer (Body Armor) on the other hand definitely seems necessary, though it's not attested in Characters.

Engineer (Vehicle Armor) seems like an unlikely specialization - Engineer (Materials) covers inventing new kinds of armor substances and Engineer (Vehicle Type) covers all the design of a new vehicle including its armor layout. I suppose if you had a specialist who works on the armor for tanks, warships, and aircraft alike but nothing else in those vehicles they could have Engineer (Vehicle Armor) but that seems weird - both as a career and because normally in GURPS Engineer specialties want to cover designing a full product, not one detail of a product.

Remember that Engineer has defaults. They're not good defaults, but they're good enough that someone could design 'simple' products, especially if they're simple variations on already known products, without having training in Engineer. Food product Engineer specialties definitely should exist though - both fast food and packaged foods are very much designed.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Engineer (Vehicle Armor) seems like an unlikely specialization - Engineer (Materials) covers inventing new kinds of armor substances and Engineer (Vehicle Type) covers all the design of a new vehicle including its armor layout. I suppose if you had a specialist who works on the armor for tanks, warships, and aircraft alike but nothing else in those vehicles they could have Engineer (Vehicle Armor) but that seems weird - both as a career and because normally in GURPS Engineer specialties want to cover designing a full product, not one detail of a product.

I would assume such things would come under Metallurgy.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I would assume such things would come under Metallurgy.

...Why? Engineer (Materials) is right there. And it's not like all armor materials are metal.

Using Metallurgy anywhere you would Engineer (Materials) so long as the material in question is metal would probably be reasonable though. I wouldn't think that it's coverage of the "use" of metals extends to covering the design of either personal or vehicular armor.

[Pursuivant]

It's not RAW, but a decent way to divide out engineering specialties is to look at a college course catalog and treat each major as a specialty.

For example, if the local community college offers "HVAC Technician" as a training program, then Mechanic (HVAC) or Engineering (HVAC) should be reasonable GURPS specializations.

Tweak as necessary for non-realistic campaigns. E.g., for a space campaign "HVAC" turns into "Life Support" while for a steampunk campaign it turns into campaign-appropriate technobabble like "Phlogiston Restorers."

[whswhs]

Historically the concept of phlogiston became obsolete at the end of the 18th century, well before the classic steampunk years. The age of steam led to the discovery of the Carnot cycle and then to thermodynamics, which really put paid to the elements of fire and heat.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Historically the concept of phlogiston became obsolete at the end of the 18th century, well before the classic steampunk years. The age of steam led to the discovery of the Carnot cycle and then to thermodynamics, which really put paid to the elements of fire and heat.

That's what I get for trying to generate steampunk-style technobabble on the fly!