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08-27-2020, 08:04 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
For example if you have Burning Attack (Area Effect, Persistent) you create a 10-second firewall, but then an ally needs to get through NOW. You can't actually take it down, just wait it out...
Cancellable seems like a perfect solve to deal with that situation. Otherwise I'm wondering what kind of options might exist. I was wondering, if a characteer was in a situation like that and didn't have Cancellation, would the next best bet (assuming it was a power) be to roll "Power Parry" against your own ability to try and reduce the damage, representing temporarily making a hole in the flames for your ally to run through? That's not a guarantee though. 2d burning minus 2d burning might work out to 0, or you could roll 12 minus 2 and still do 10 damage to your ally. The only way to truly be safe there would be to use less than max damage for your firewall so that you full-damage power parry could always take it down. So for example you had 12d burning max, you'd only do 2d firewalls so that you'd always be guaranteed to be able to do enough damage on a Power Parry to let your allies through a hole. |
08-27-2020, 09:45 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
I'd allow it. I've allowed Cancellation on Binding before and this seems similar enough in utility. All three are attack advantages so shared modifiers can make sense. In fact, I'm not sure what I wouldn't allow it on, but I know a lot of other abilities already have either a built in cancel or must be maintained anyway.
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08-27-2020, 11:13 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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Or maybe keeping the persistent effect up should be 1 FP per minute? That might instead be something to codify differently as a limited enhancement? |
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08-28-2020, 01:45 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
From what I can tell, Cancellation is valid for any ability with a duration greater than "Instant" that affects either another person or an area. This can be Binding, Afflictions or Innate Attacks, various forms of Control (such as Control Weather), Illusion, or possibly even DR w/ Force Field and Area Effect (f'rex, doing a Force Dome spell in Sorcery). It's usually paired with Persistent and/or Increased Duration
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08-28-2020, 02:13 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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As for someone who doesn't have the enhancement, there are rules for adding enhancements to your power temporarily in Powers (alongside defaulting new abilities with them). Those seem fine for having to suddenly shut off your power. For an actual Wall (not just Area + Persistent) at the +60% level, I can see it being an action (ready most likely) to shape it without having to spend extra for the attack (if it has a cost) to 'open' a door. Beyond Cancellation there is also Selective Effect which lets you decide who your attack actually hurts. |
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08-28-2020, 09:42 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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maybe allow 'reduced fatigue' to be bought to reduce TE cost from 2 to 1? or avoid TE altogether and just apply 'Costs Fatigue' as limited enhancement to Cancellable. Then you just need Selectivity so that you flip "Cancellation" on when you need it. Maybe a cheaper version if Cancellable is the ONLY enhancement you're able to flip on/off. OR: rather than applying Costs Fatigue to Cancellable (which would probably be 1 FP per attempt to cancel... those can miss!) you insead apply Costs Fatigue to the "Limited Selectivity" so that it costs 1 FP to flip the capability-to-cancel on and off. Like for example if there were other limitations that applied to it (even more fatigue cost?) or if you were charging 1FP/second to keep the enhancement active (giving incentive to shut the enhancement off when you don't intend to have cancellation accessible) "Limitation applies on use of ability imparted by enhancement" should only apply to enhancements that add active components to an advantage though (such as shooting cancellation rays) Stuff like "Stable Casting" enhancement for Magery would need to be "on before you cast your spell" I think, to deal with the problem it would create with Information Spells. If "my Stable Casting's associated limitations only kick in when I actually need to reroll my crit failure" was the policy, the kicking-in of stuff like Costs Fatigue or Costs HP could give a warning that you indeed failed, so if you failed the Stable Casting roll (get bad info) you would know the info is bad. I guess one option might be to only charge Stable Casting's limitation (like costs HP/FP) if the SC roll is successful, so if it fails, you have no indicator the data you're getting is crit-fail misinfo instead of a success. |
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08-28-2020, 05:17 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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Reduced Fatigue on advantages that don't cost FP already affect Temporary Enhancements and Abilities at Defaults. Powers warns about that with making power modifiers that include limited versions of it (such as Reduced Cost Only at Holy Sites). For an attack, I feel like you could allow Costs FP and Reduced Cost where you must pay a minimum of Costs FP each time you use it but Reduced Cost still takes effect for things like this. You wouldn't need Selectivity for enhancements that are limited in use just like you don't need Switchable for (most) traits if you limit usage. Also, Costs FP comes out to a really tiny amount on Cancellation :( What might work better is a perk that lets you spend FP to cancel a spell. Cancellation is still better for general use, but the perk (or just feature if you want) would let you spend FP on spells (powers) that don't have it to turn them off. Magic has that as a built in option (IIRC) and it seems like it could be one of those 'free' pros when building powers. |
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08-28-2020, 05:55 PM | #8 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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Of course no amount of "reduced fatigue" on your power modifier can compare to Mana-Sensitive just giving unlimited next-second FP refunds in Very High Mana or zero-cost abilities in Wild Mana. Quote:
That's why measuring characters in ⅒ CP is aces so that low-level abilities will still take it. Whole-number rounding per canon rules is anti-complex. Perhaps modular abilities where the slots are used to purchase Affliction enhancements of varying prices for various abilities with durations? |
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08-28-2020, 06:54 PM | #9 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dreamland
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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As a full on power? That sounds awesome. As a single cute option? I think it would be overkill. I've used this for things like Delay since it can be done in so many different ways, but Cancellation is honestly so small that it might even be overpriced at +10%. A perk that gives you the option of spending a large resource (FP) to use it once isn't going to break anything. |
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08-28-2020, 09:51 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: would Cancellable make sense for all persistant abilites, not just Affliction?
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Something like (let's say if we were basing it on the Continuous Mana idea from Thaumatology that each hex can hold a certain amount of mana. Say something like 10 plus skill modifier. So normal hexes hold 10 energy, Low holds 5 energy, High holds 10, Very High holds 15. For simplicity. This energy could be sapped through various things that would usually offset energy costs, such as "cost reductions for high skill", cost reduction to 0 for critical success, having "Power" on an enchanted item, being absorbed by a powerstone, Recovery Energy restoring FP faster, etc... So if someone was using it up too quickly then it should be temporarily "out" and you'd need to move to another hex (or at least move your staff into the other hex) to tap the 'circulating energy' in that hex too. However there should be an "equalization pressure" going on between adjacent mana-holding hexes (ie everything except no mana) where things holding the highest % would naturally flow into hexes holding a lower %. So for example, a Low Mana hex holding 5/5 energy is at 100% capacity. If it is next to a Normal Mana hex holding 5/10 energy at 50% capacity, gradual equalization should happen, like air/water currents of cold and hot balancing out. I'm not sure how gradual that should be. Maybe something like 1 per second so it goes from 5/5 5/10 to 4/5+6/10 (80% v 60%) to 3/5 7/10 at which point it stops because now you're at 60%/70%. To stop a constant shuffle back to the earlier state, you'd need some rule like "a higher-mana zone will not give up 1 energy to a lower mana zone if that would result in it dropping to a lower %. As for how the energy comes back: one idea is just that living beings who are in a state that they could be recovering FP or HP but are not missing any, instead shed that "life energy" into the environment, which restores "depleted mana", unless it's shed in a No Mana zone, which simply can't contain it and it dies off. Another idea might be that there's some basic fixed regeneration rate "from zero". You could base that on the rate powerstones recover at, perhaps. Another might be "mana is the mating ground of energy" where mana recovers exponentially (1 becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8, per minute or per hour or per day) which gives incentive not to use it up too quickly if it's the only high-capacity mana pool around (much like the FP recovery rules used in Last Gasp) |
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cancellation, power parry |
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