06-26-2021, 04:28 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Hey, y'all.
I'm bringing this up mostly out of curiosity. Looking at the Cursed [-75] disadvantage on B129, the description includes no concrete game effects. The write up for the Curse advantage in Psionic Powers is also entirely subjective. ("[T]hings immediately begin going horribly wrong ...."). Christopher Rice, in "Cursed Thou Art" in Pyramid 3/78 suggests that the GM should "'arbitrarily and maliciously make something go wrong' at least eight times per game session for Cursed characters." I think it would be neat to have a very clear alternative for the Cursed disadvantage that could be used by GMs to make this a legitimate character trait a PC might be expected to take on without having to rely on the GM's whim, something that mirrors, for example, Ridiculous Luck [60] or the Impulse Buys versions of Destiny and Serendipity. My first thought would be that Cursed [-75] could be construed to 1) make a character ALWAYS roll 3 times for any roll that applies to the character and ALWAYS take the worst result while 2) always making 17 or 18 a critical failure, regardless of effective skill. Failures will become much more common and one out of about 25 rolls will end up being a Critical Failure, mental disadvantages will become almost impossible to control, etc. Actually, now that I've just made that assessment, it seems a bit mild.... Other ideas? I'd really like to hear from some of the folks who are more mathematically-inclined than I am; I have no idea if this is balanced or not for -75 points .... Edit: How about if the Cursed character has a single red die that he always rolls with any success or reaction roll; if it comes up 6, the roll is automatically a failure? That dramatically increases the odds of terrible stuff - but is that too much for -75? Last edited by JulianLW; 06-26-2021 at 04:47 PM. |
06-26-2021, 05:34 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Having it work like one level of the Curse spell (modify all rolls by one point in a direction unfavorable to the character) is probably mechanically balanced but somewhat boring.
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06-26-2021, 05:47 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
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Also, yes. I think it'd be more appropriate to have a slightly less predictable mechanic, something more like Luck rerolls. The player shouldn't be able to plan for the effects of a Curse. |
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06-26-2021, 08:03 PM | #4 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Quote:
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06-27-2021, 09:12 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
After looking at this thread:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=132507 and this one: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=132520 I think the mechanic that will probably fit Cursed [-75] the best is to ALWAYS have to roll one extra die any time the PC makes a roll (or whenever the GM rolls for her) and then take the WORST possible result. If I understand the mechanics (I'm not sure I do, though) outlined here ... Quote:
So, what do y'all think of this? Cursed [-75] The player is always the recipient of any random badness that happens to a party at the GM's discretion. More concretely, the PC or the GM always rolls one extra "curse die" with any roll affecting the PC - from reaction and damage rolls to attacks on the PC from NPCs to critical results tables - and must take the worst possible result for the PC. The GM selects results when multiple negative outcomes are possible. EDIT: As I'm thinking this through, I realize that maybe the worst outcome here is that it makes Active Defense rolls VERY likely to fail..... This mechanic is pretty brutal. Try rolling 4d6 two dozen times and see how often you come up with a critical failure. Last edited by JulianLW; 06-27-2021 at 10:25 AM. |
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06-27-2021, 10:14 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
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How about crit result tables? Those don't get strictly worse with increasing die rolls (usually it's more "distance from center"). Moving up or down one line might be worse than moving two; would the curse select the worst result in a range +/- the base 3d6 roll? There will be times when the worst result for the PC is going to be situational. (Walking a tightrope, losing your balance with a 7 might be more of a problem that losing your weapon with a 3.) If the goal is to eliminate GM whim, who makes that call? Just purely mechanical, even if that's not a "worse" result, so the curse occasionally makes the PC in fact lucky? (Not a huge wart, and easily overlooked by most groups, but players will notice.) |
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06-27-2021, 10:20 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Quote:
Do you think that's about right for -75? I'd love to hear from some experienced GM's and more math-savvy people what they think of this scheme. Too strong? Not enough? Need any tweaks? Cursed [-75] The player is always the recipient of any random badness that happens to a party at the GM's discretion. More concretely, the PC or the GM always rolls one extra "curse die" with any roll affecting the PC - from reaction and damage rolls to attacks on the PC from NPCs to critical results tables - and must take the worst possible result for the PC. The GM selects results when multiple negative outcomes are possible. Last edited by JulianLW; 06-27-2021 at 10:26 AM. |
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06-27-2021, 11:59 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Case A: Roll an extra die with every reaction roll. A 6 on the extra die indicates an automatic result of 3. The odds are as follows. First number is the result, second is normal odds of that result, third is the adjusted odds of that result.
Code:
3 0.46% 17.05% 4 1.39% 1.16% 5 2.78% 2.31% 6 4.63% 3.86% 7 6.94% 5.79% 8 9.72% 8.10% 9 11.57% 9.65% 10 12.50% 10.42% 11 12.50% 10.42% 12 11.57% 9.65% 13 9.72% 8.10% 14 6.94% 5.79% 15 4.63% 3.86% 16 2.78% 2.31% 17 1.39% 1.16% 18 0.46% 0.39% Code:
3 25.93% 38.27% 4 16.20% 30.17% 5 9.26% 24.38% 6 4.63% 20.52% 7 1.85% 18.21% 8 1.85% 18.21% 9 1.85% 18.21% 10 1.85% 18.21% 11 1.85% 18.21% 12 1.85% 18.21% 13 1.85% 18.21% 14 1.85% 18.21% 15 1.85% 18.21% 16 0.46% 17.05% Code:
4 4 1.82% 31.82% 4 5 1.77% 31.78% 4 6 1.68% 31.72% 4 7 1.55% 31.63% 4 8 1.37% 31.51% 4 9 1.16% 31.36% 4 10 0.93% 31.20% 4 11 0.69% 31.04% 4 12 0.48% 30.89% 4 13 0.30% 30.76% 4 14 0.17% 30.67% 4 15 0.09% 30.62% 4 16 0.03% 30.58% 5 4 4.54% 33.71% 5 5 4.42% 33.62% 5 6 4.20% 33.47% 5 7 3.88% 33.25% 5 8 3.43% 32.94% 5 9 2.89% 32.56% 5 10 2.31% 32.16% 5 11 1.74% 31.76% 5 12 1.20% 31.39% 5 13 0.75% 31.08% 5 14 0.43% 30.85% 5 15 0.21% 30.70% 5 16 0.09% 30.62% 6 4 9.09% 36.87% 6 5 8.83% 36.69% 6 6 8.40% 36.39% 6 7 7.76% 35.94% 6 8 6.86% 35.32% 6 9 5.79% 34.57% 6 10 4.63% 33.77% 6 11 3.47% 32.97% 6 12 2.40% 32.22% 6 13 1.50% 31.60% 6 14 0.86% 31.15% 6 15 0.43% 30.85% 6 16 0.17% 30.67% 7 4 15.90% 41.60% 7 5 15.45% 41.29% 7 6 14.70% 40.77% 7 7 13.58% 39.98% 7 8 12.00% 38.89% 7 9 10.13% 37.59% 7 10 8.10% 36.18% 7 11 6.08% 34.78% 7 12 4.20% 33.47% 7 13 2.63% 32.38% 7 14 1.50% 31.60% 7 15 0.75% 31.08% 7 16 0.30% 30.76% 8 4 25.45% 48.23% 8 5 24.73% 47.73% 8 6 23.53% 46.89% 8 7 21.72% 45.64% 8 8 19.20% 43.89% 8 9 16.20% 41.81% 8 10 12.96% 39.56% 8 11 9.72% 37.31% 8 12 6.72% 35.22% 8 13 4.20% 33.47% 8 14 2.40% 32.22% 8 15 1.20% 31.39% 8 16 0.48% 30.89% 9 4 36.81% 56.11% 9 5 35.76% 55.39% 9 6 34.03% 54.19% 9 7 31.42% 52.38% 9 8 27.78% 49.85% 9 9 23.44% 46.83% 9 10 18.75% 43.58% 9 11 14.06% 40.32% 9 12 9.72% 37.31% 9 13 6.08% 34.78% 9 14 3.47% 32.97% 9 15 1.74% 31.76% 9 16 0.69% 31.04% 10 4 49.07% 64.63% 10 5 47.69% 63.67% 10 6 45.37% 62.06% 10 7 41.90% 59.65% 10 8 37.04% 56.28% 10 9 31.25% 52.26% 10 10 25.00% 47.92% 10 11 18.75% 43.58% 10 12 12.96% 39.56% 10 13 8.10% 36.18% 10 14 4.63% 33.77% 10 15 2.31% 32.16% 10 16 0.93% 31.20% 11 4 61.34% 73.15% 11 5 59.61% 71.95% 11 6 56.71% 69.94% 11 7 52.37% 66.93% 11 8 46.30% 62.71% 11 9 39.06% 57.68% 11 10 31.25% 52.26% 11 11 23.44% 46.83% 11 12 16.20% 41.81% 11 13 10.13% 37.59% 11 14 5.79% 34.57% 11 15 2.89% 32.56% 11 16 1.16% 31.36% 12 4 72.70% 81.04% 12 5 70.64% 79.61% 12 6 67.22% 77.23% 12 7 62.07% 73.66% 12 8 54.87% 68.66% 12 9 46.30% 62.71% 12 10 37.04% 56.28% 12 11 27.78% 49.85% 12 12 19.20% 43.89% 12 13 12.00% 38.89% 12 14 6.86% 35.32% 12 15 3.43% 32.94% 12 16 1.37% 31.51% 13 4 82.24% 87.67% 13 5 79.92% 86.05% 13 6 76.04% 83.36% 13 7 70.22% 79.32% 13 8 62.07% 73.66% 13 9 52.37% 66.93% 13 10 41.90% 59.65% 13 11 31.42% 52.38% 13 12 21.72% 45.64% 13 13 13.58% 39.98% 13 14 7.76% 35.94% 13 15 3.88% 33.25% 13 16 1.55% 31.63% 14 4 89.06% 92.40% 14 5 86.54% 90.65% 14 6 82.34% 87.74% 14 7 76.04% 83.36% 14 8 67.22% 77.23% 14 9 56.71% 69.94% 14 10 45.37% 62.06% 14 11 34.03% 54.19% 14 12 23.53% 46.89% 14 13 14.70% 40.77% 14 14 8.40% 36.39% 14 15 4.20% 33.47% 14 16 1.68% 31.72% 15 4 93.60% 95.56% 15 5 90.96% 93.72% 15 6 86.54% 90.65% 15 7 79.92% 86.05% 15 8 70.64% 79.61% 15 9 59.61% 71.95% 15 10 47.69% 63.67% 15 11 35.76% 55.39% 15 12 24.73% 47.73% 15 13 15.45% 41.29% 15 14 8.83% 36.69% 15 15 4.42% 33.62% 15 16 1.77% 31.78% 16 4 96.33% 97.45% 16 5 93.60% 95.56% 16 6 89.06% 92.40% 16 7 82.24% 87.67% 16 8 72.70% 81.04% 16 9 61.34% 73.15% 16 10 49.07% 64.63% 16 11 36.81% 56.11% 16 12 25.45% 48.23% 16 13 15.90% 41.60% 16 14 9.09% 36.87% 16 15 4.54% 33.71% 16 16 1.82% 31.82% Code:
6 0.01% 0.01% 7 0.06% 0.05% 8 0.19% 0.16% 9 0.45% 0.38% 10 0.90% 0.75% 11 1.62% 1.35% 12 2.64% 2.20% 13 3.92% 3.27% 14 5.40% 4.50% 15 6.94% 5.79% 16 8.37% 6.98% 17 9.45% 7.88% 18 10.03% 8.36% 19 10.03% 8.36% 20 9.45% 7.88% 21 8.37% 6.98% 22 6.94% 5.79% 23 5.40% 4.50% 24 3.92% 3.27% 25 2.64% 2.20% 26 1.62% 1.35% 27 0.90% 0.75% 28 0.45% 0.38% 29 0.19% 0.16% 30 0.06% 0.05% 31 0.01% 16.68% Last edited by TGLS; 06-27-2021 at 12:24 PM. |
06-27-2021, 12:11 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Ökay. I'm sooo very much not the math guy. But it seems as though you're telling me that the 1 in 6 chance of a failure is an obvious death sentence. Am I interpreting this correctly? Because that's what it looks like to this English major.
But thank you so much for this analysis! I got no skillz and I could not ever have done this on my own! What do you think about the extra die rolled mechanic? Does that seem about right for -75 points? |
06-27-2021, 12:53 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Re: Possible game mechanic for Cursed [-75]
Quote:
Reaction rolls (adjusted is third column) Code:
3 0.46% 1.62% 4 1.39% 4.17% 5 2.78% 7.25% 6 4.63% 10.11% 7 6.94% 12.35% 8 9.72% 13.27% 9 11.57% 12.89% 10 12.50% 11.42% 11 12.50% 9.41% 12 11.57% 7.02% 13 9.72% 4.78% 14 6.94% 2.93% 15 4.63% 1.62% 16 2.78% 0.77% 17 1.39% 0.31% 18 0.46% 0.08% Code:
4 1.85% 0.39% 5 4.63% 1.16% 6 9.26% 2.78% 7 16.20% 5.71% 8 25.93% 10.49% 9 37.50% 17.52% 10 50.00% 26.93% 11 62.50% 38.35% 12 74.07% 51.23% 13 83.80% 64.51% 14 90.74% 76.85% 15 95.37% 86.96% 16 98.15% 94.21% Code:
4 4 1.82% 5.76% 4 5 1.77% 5.72% 4 6 1.68% 5.63% 4 7 1.55% 5.46% 4 8 1.37% 5.18% 4 9 1.16% 4.77% 4 10 0.93% 4.23% 4 11 0.69% 3.57% 4 12 0.48% 2.82% 4 13 0.30% 2.05% 4 14 0.17% 1.34% 4 15 0.09% 0.75% 4 16 0.03% 0.33% 5 4 4.54% 12.99% 5 5 4.42% 12.89% 5 6 4.20% 12.68% 5 7 3.88% 12.30% 5 8 3.43% 11.67% 5 9 2.89% 10.76% 5 10 2.31% 9.53% 5 11 1.74% 8.04% 5 12 1.20% 6.36% 5 13 0.75% 4.63% 5 14 0.43% 3.02% 5 15 0.21% 1.70% 5 16 0.09% 0.75% 6 4 9.09% 23.06% 6 5 8.83% 22.88% 6 6 8.40% 22.51% 6 7 7.76% 21.83% 6 8 6.86% 20.72% 6 9 5.79% 19.09% 6 10 4.63% 16.91% 6 11 3.47% 14.27% 6 12 2.40% 11.29% 6 13 1.50% 8.22% 6 14 0.86% 5.36% 6 15 0.43% 3.02% 6 16 0.17% 1.34% 7 4 15.90% 35.36% 7 5 15.45% 35.08% 7 6 14.70% 34.51% 7 7 13.58% 33.47% 7 8 12.00% 31.77% 7 9 10.13% 29.28% 7 10 8.10% 25.94% 7 11 6.08% 21.88% 7 12 4.20% 17.31% 7 13 2.63% 12.60% 7 14 1.50% 8.22% 7 15 0.75% 4.63% 7 16 0.30% 2.05% 8 4 25.45% 48.58% 8 5 24.73% 48.20% 8 6 23.53% 47.41% 8 7 21.72% 45.98% 8 8 19.20% 43.65% 8 9 16.20% 40.22% 8 10 12.96% 35.63% 8 11 9.72% 30.06% 8 12 6.72% 23.78% 8 13 4.20% 17.31% 8 14 2.40% 11.29% 8 15 1.20% 6.36% 8 16 0.48% 2.82% 9 4 36.81% 61.41% 9 5 35.76% 60.94% 9 6 34.03% 59.94% 9 7 31.42% 58.13% 9 8 27.78% 55.18% 9 9 23.44% 50.85% 9 10 18.75% 45.05% 9 11 14.06% 38.01% 9 12 9.72% 30.06% 9 13 6.08% 21.88% 9 14 3.47% 14.27% 9 15 1.74% 8.04% 9 16 0.69% 3.57% 10 4 49.07% 72.79% 10 5 47.69% 72.23% 10 6 45.37% 71.04% 10 7 41.90% 68.90% 10 8 37.04% 65.40% 10 9 31.25% 60.27% 10 10 25.00% 53.39% 10 11 18.75% 45.05% 10 12 12.96% 35.63% 10 13 8.10% 25.94% 10 14 4.63% 16.91% 10 15 2.31% 9.53% 10 16 0.93% 4.23% 11 4 61.34% 82.17% 11 5 59.61% 81.53% 11 6 56.71% 80.19% 11 7 52.37% 77.77% 11 8 46.30% 73.83% 11 9 39.06% 68.04% 11 10 31.25% 60.27% 11 11 23.44% 50.85% 11 12 16.20% 40.22% 11 13 10.13% 29.28% 11 14 5.79% 19.09% 11 15 2.89% 10.76% 11 16 1.16% 4.77% 12 4 72.70% 89.16% 12 5 70.64% 88.47% 12 6 67.22% 87.02% 12 7 62.07% 84.40% 12 8 54.87% 80.11% 12 9 46.30% 73.83% 12 10 37.04% 65.40% 12 11 27.78% 55.18% 12 12 19.20% 43.65% 12 13 12.00% 31.77% 12 14 6.86% 20.72% 12 15 3.43% 11.67% 12 16 1.37% 5.18% 13 4 82.24% 93.93% 13 5 79.92% 93.20% 13 6 76.04% 91.67% 13 7 70.22% 88.91% 13 8 62.07% 84.40% 13 9 52.37% 77.77% 13 10 41.90% 68.90% 13 11 31.42% 58.13% 13 12 21.72% 45.98% 13 13 13.58% 33.47% 13 14 7.76% 21.83% 13 15 3.88% 12.30% 13 16 1.55% 5.46% 14 4 89.06% 96.85% 14 5 86.54% 96.10% 14 6 82.34% 94.52% 14 7 76.04% 91.67% 14 8 67.22% 87.02% 14 9 56.71% 80.19% 14 10 45.37% 71.04% 14 11 34.03% 59.94% 14 12 23.53% 47.41% 14 13 14.70% 34.51% 14 14 8.40% 22.51% 14 15 4.20% 12.68% 14 16 1.68% 5.63% 15 4 93.60% 98.46% 15 5 90.96% 97.70% 15 6 86.54% 96.10% 15 7 79.92% 93.20% 15 8 70.64% 88.47% 15 9 59.61% 81.53% 15 10 47.69% 72.23% 15 11 35.76% 60.94% 15 12 24.73% 48.20% 15 13 15.45% 35.08% 15 14 8.83% 22.88% 15 15 4.42% 12.89% 15 16 1.77% 5.72% 16 4 96.33% 99.23% 16 5 93.60% 98.46% 16 6 89.06% 96.85% 16 7 82.24% 93.93% 16 8 72.70% 89.16% 16 9 61.34% 82.17% 16 10 49.07% 72.79% 16 11 36.81% 61.41% 16 12 25.45% 48.58% 16 13 15.90% 35.36% 16 14 9.09% 23.06% 16 15 4.54% 12.99% 16 16 1.82% 5.76% Code:
5 0.01% 0.00% 6 0.06% 0.01% 7 0.19% 0.05% 8 0.45% 0.12% 9 0.90% 0.27% 10 1.62% 0.54% 11 2.64% 0.99% 12 3.92% 1.65% 13 5.40% 2.56% 14 6.94% 3.72% 15 8.37% 5.08% 16 9.45% 6.52% 17 10.03% 7.90% 18 10.03% 9.06% 19 9.45% 9.82% 20 8.37% 10.05% 21 6.94% 9.70% 22 5.40% 8.80% 23 3.92% 7.47% 24 2.64% 5.89% 25 1.62% 4.27% 26 0.90% 2.79% 27 0.45% 1.61% 28 0.19% 0.78% 29 0.06% 0.29% 30 0.01% 0.07% Code:
2 0.46% 2.78% 3 1.39% 5.56% 4 3.24% 8.33% 5 5.56% 11.11% 6 8.80% 13.89% 7 12.50% 16.67% 8 15.74% 13.89% 9 16.67% 11.11% 10 15.74% 8.33% 11 12.50% 5.56% 12 7.41% 2.78% |
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Tags |
cursed, meta-traits |
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