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Old 11-18-2018, 08:37 AM   #1
afschell
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southeastern PA
Default Flying away with something/one

Any ideas on the mechanics of how a flyer can pick up a foe?

My current thoughts are:

For a gargoyle:

Turn 1: Land on foe, initiating HTH combat

Turn 2: Pin foe

Turn 3: If foe stays pinned, take off at 1/2 MA (4 hexes) due to load. 1 MA can go 1 hex horizontally or 3' vertically.

Turn 4 forward: Fly at 1/2 MA (8 hexes) due to load. 1 MA can go 1 hex horizontally or 3' vertically.

Can drop victim at any time for appropriate falling damage.
Possibly give victim 4/DX to hang on.

On the other hand, rocs, dragons, etc., would just swoop down and attack at -4DX, grab whatever it hits, and fly away. The weight would be negligible so no MA penalty.

As always, thoughts?
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Old 11-18-2018, 10:30 AM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Flying away with something/one

I think that's about right, but I would use the actual target figure's weight plus what he's currently wearing/carrying, and the encumbrance rules for fliers, to see if it can be done and what the MA and DX penalties for holding the weight are, if any.

For the dragon-snatch version, if that's something dragons are built to do, I wouldn't penalize their DX but in any case I would make it a contest of DX with a victim who is facing the right way and trying to get out of the way. Brave people facing the right way who come within their own weapon reach could instead stand to get a chance to hit the dragon as it zooms by, at -4.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:04 AM   #3
afschell
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southeastern PA
Default Re: Flying away with something/one

The -4 DX for grabbing comes from ITL, page 133, which seems to apply to every type of flier. But that is inconsistent with the Flight Spell (ITL, p 25) which has (as I read it) the penalty at -2 DX. Pay your quarter, take your choice I guess.

Any attacks against the swooping flier would be by adjDX order so if your's is higher you obviously get one. Any DX penalty based on the target's size: 1-hex -4; 4-hex -2; larger no penalty (7 and 14 hex dragons are BIG :) ). The flier can move out of range next turn.

You are correct with the encumbrance MA penalty. 1/2 MA is probably too much of a penalty. I was just thinking for off the cuff/fast play with no any rules lookup. Depends if the PCs have their total weight calculated. If they do, great. Otherwise, wing it. I don't really want to stop play for that.
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Old 11-18-2018, 12:47 PM   #4
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Flying away with something/one

Quote:
Originally Posted by afschell View Post
The -4 DX for grabbing comes from ITL, page 133, which seems to apply to every type of flier. But that is inconsistent with the Flight Spell (ITL, p 25) which has (as I read it) the penalty at -2 DX. Pay your quarter, take your choice I guess.
Yeah, it is an inconsistency from the old rules, too. Clearly there is a -2 DX unfamiliarity penalty for people with Flight magic on them since basic Wizard, but then the Advanced Melee flying rules give a -4 DX for all fliers attacking people on the ground. If the AM -4 DX applies, then logically people using Flight magic would be at -6 DX total.

The reason I said I wouldn't apply a DX penalty for a dragon grab was because I replaced the difficulty with a Contest, since I prefer it matter what is being grabbed and to give victims some sense that their abilities are taken into account when being snatched by a dragon. Presumably, avoiding being snatched is also not that easy, since TFT rarely gives anyone any chance to avoid attacks with their DX, so I figured it was a wash. I could see doing it as dragon DX -4 versus target DX if they Dodge, or just dragon DX -4 if they don't Dodge. However, then a smart dragon would probably never attempt it unless they could do it from the side/rear.


Quote:
Originally Posted by afschell View Post
Any attacks against the swooping flier would be by adjDX order so if your's is higher you obviously get one. Any DX penalty based on the target's size: 1-hex -4; 4-hex -2; larger no penalty (7 and 14 hex dragons are BIG :) ). The flier can move out of range next turn.
It's not so obvious to me. It depends on how you play it - do you make a dragon stop for the Action phase (in which case, they'll get an attack if they have lower adjDX too, it'll just happen later, or sooner if they have pole weapons), OR do you make fly-by snatching a special action that can be done during the Movement phase, and also let anyone (who's ready and waiting) whom the dragon moves past to get an attack if/when the dragon moves into reach?

It seems to me that bonuses to hit a large target apply only to ranged attacks and depend on the angle of the shot on the target.


Quote:
Originally Posted by afschell View Post
You are correct with the encumbrance MA penalty. 1/2 MA is probably too much of a penalty. I was just thinking for off the cuff/fast play with no any rules lookup. Depends if the PCs have their total weight calculated. If they do, great. Otherwise, wing it. I don't really want to stop play for that.
If you want to be prepared for combat involving fliers carrying away people, I'd suggest spending time with the rules before play and working out some sample weight figures and noting them somewhere. If you have some reference points noted and/or memorized, it makes it easier to give more accurate off-the-cuff GM rulings.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:38 PM   #5
afschell
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southeastern PA
Default Re: Flying away with something/one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
If you want to be prepared for combat involving fliers carrying away people, I'd suggest spending time with the rules before play and working out some sample weight figures and noting them somewhere. If you have some reference points noted and/or memorized, it makes it easier to give more accurate off-the-cuff GM rulings.
Won't disagree with you there. I have many 4x6 index cards printed with rules synopses. Most of them are way to reenforce common knowledge that may get forgotten. A bit cumbersome? Yes. But I find it easier than bookmarking PDFs.
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