10-28-2011, 08:05 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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10-28-2011, 08:25 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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10-28-2011, 09:21 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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I'm just bringing up the comparison for two reasons: One, I'd consider it balanced to other options, especially given the point cost. You could buy a neat innate attack for the Weapon Master costs, too. Two, it's not like the rest of the GURPS damage system is that much more realistic, even disregarding Weapon Mastery. So "unrealistic". Sure. Unbalanced/power-gamerish/munchkiny? Don't think so. Eliminating Weapon Mastery (and TbaM) would be one quick fix, to *really* change things you'd have to adopt every Harsh Realism rule in the books and probably change the base dmg table… |
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10-28-2011, 10:04 AM | #14 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
All muscle-powered weapons – not just melee weapons – are limited to damage for three times the ST listed in the weapon tables. For bows of all kinds, the ST on the table doesn't rate user ST (which is a separate rating) but minimum ST to pick up and shoot a bow of that design without a penalty. See p. B270 for more. Just looking at the bows on pp. B275-276, then:
Short Bow or Crossbow (any kind): Min. ST 7, Max. ST 21. A bow can be designed to match user ST for ST 7-21; the user needs this much ST to operate the bow. The user has a skill penalty if his ST is 6 or less, regardless of the bow, because it's too bulky and heavy for him before he so much as draws the thing (which he might still be able to do with extra effort).The same rule is why throwing knives and shuriken can't be as deadly as guns. They list ST 5 for the most part, which means that ST 16+ users are treated as if they had ST 15. That said . . . Agreed. Especially since this is true at later TLs even without much training. The latest, greatest rounds for reloadable RPG launchers and other LAWs do more damage per shot, with a greater rate of fire, than the lightest battery mortars and howitzers. What light artillery customarily gets you is sustainable fire and a wider range of ammunition options.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
10-28-2011, 10:37 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Denmark
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
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From the discussions I've seen on the board, it seems to be a given that it did not apply to ranged weapons too. |
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10-28-2011, 11:01 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
I thought that crossbows already exceeded that limit, at least steel ones…
And those are about the only ones where I really think it matters. If you exceed triple the base ST of a missile weapon and still are SM+0, it's quite likely that your setting has some methods of providing better suited variants, even at low TLs. Just throw "shuriken" that weigh 2 pounds each, or use a bow that kinda looks like a leaf spring… |
10-28-2011, 11:27 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The ASS of the world, mainly Valencia, Spain (Europe)
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
Well, this makes Iron Crossbows actually useful, if you allow it to be rated for more than 2x the max st of a wooden crossbow (I would allow 3-4x but that's gut feeling).
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10-28-2011, 11:40 AM | #18 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
The triple ST rule does indeed make bows made from better materials more useful. For instance, the fowling, hunting, military, and siege crossbows in Low-Tech – all steel – list ST 8, 10, 12, and 14, pushing the maxima from 21 up to 24, 30, 36, and 42. Of course, these are TL4 designs, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they're better than some TL2 "artillery" . . . much as TL8 small arms are often better than TL6 support weapons.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
10-28-2011, 11:50 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of the Beer, Home of the Dirndls
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
Going just by the rules, I don't think so. A gastraphetes (TL2) has a maximum usable ST of 30 (3 * 10), whereas a Siege Crossbow (TL4) has a max usable ST of 21 (14*3 /2) (never mind a higher bulk and slower RoF if not using winches).
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10-28-2011, 11:51 AM | #20 |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jacksonville FL
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Re: Max Damage on Bows?
So there really shouldn't be any sort of cost difference for higher strength bows? I just thought it would require more skill, better materials and more time to make a ST: 20 bow than a ST 12 one.
I do like the idea that the arrows have to be heavier to withstand the pressures of the bow.
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