03-12-2023, 11:35 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
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Getting the lesser spell version for free...
The rules for Creation Spells explicitly allow one to get the lesser versions (meaning smaller areas) "for free", unlike Staff I - V, where the lesser versions are prerequisites for the greater.
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So, I thought I'd ask how people play this. I'm not sure if it's a matter of house ruling or interpretation, so I picked this forum. Do you allow wizards who know Megahex Avert/Sleep to cast the lesser version? What about Giant Rope? Are there good arguments in favor of the more liberal reading? Opposed? And am I missing any other greater and lesser versions of essentially the same spell? (Apologies if I've missed the discussion of this topic. I did search for it and was surprised when I didn't find anything relevant.) Thanks. [1] Yes, yes, it could be the cross-sectional area of the rope... |
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03-13-2023, 08:29 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
Giant Rope could also give greater area coverage, in that it works on multi-hex creatures like giants. If you put it all in one hex, it gives the effect of extra Rope to be removed. Presumably, Steve Jackson chose to not call it 3-hex Rope so as to limit the spell to a single target rather than letting a wizard potentially hit three one-hex figures with one spell.
Spells like Telepathy and Long-distance Telepathy seem different enough that they probably are not related. But one could easily argue that Long-distance Teleport is a greater version of Teleport. Then there are the questions of whether or not Lesser Magic Item Creation is contained in Greater Magic Item Creation and if having Iron Flesh lets one cast Stone Flesh (or if having Diamond Flesh, one can cast either of the other hardened flesh spells). And, of course, there is the pair of Summon Lesser Demon and Summon Demon to consider. |
03-13-2023, 09:25 AM | #3 | |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
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The real distinction for this advantage of getting the lesser spells at there associated ST cost is that they are (C) cast spells. We may be able to find some specific cast spells to discuss for clarity. Telepathy is a (T) thrown spell and Long-Distance Telepathy is a (S) special spell. They definitely are different and neither is a cast spell. As for phiwum's example of Avert and Mega-hex Avert, both are actually thrown spells. Per RAW, they have to be learned separately. That actually came up in our conversation for building my Elf Wizard. I opted not to take either spell and replaced with Invisibility as a reasonable pairing with Mage Sight. I will probably house rule these two spells to be like the cast spells. However, with avert, you are not actually casting it on an area. You are casting it on individuals in a specific area which is probably why they are thrown spells. So, excluding them from the cast spell advantage is in line with RAW and a valid application. |
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03-13-2023, 10:53 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
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03-13-2023, 11:00 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
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One may argue that a 7-hex dragon is bigger than a 4-hex dragon in the same way that a 3-hex fire is bigger than a 1-hex fire, so the two should be treated the same, but I have the feeling that's not the intention. |
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03-13-2023, 11:52 AM | #8 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
Are you arguing for Giant Rope to be able to affect multiple hexes?
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03-13-2023, 12:06 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
I think that Henry has the right interpretation. Giant Rope is a Creation Spell, not a Thrown Spell.
Which leads to more questions. One question, of course, is what you just asked, Shostak. Since the created object can entangle a multi-hex creature, can it also entangle several one-hex critters? And does a Rope or Giant Rope remain in the hex as an object when no target is available? I'd say definitely yes to the latter, allowing a Rope spell to create a trap, consistent with the Lesser Magic Item with the Rope spell. Of course, the Rope spell has limited duration. Whether a Giant Rope spell can cover multiple hexes and hence entangle multiple critters is another matter. I'm not sure about that. |
03-13-2023, 08:00 PM | #10 |
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
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Re: Getting the lesser spell version for free...
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