Would You Play These Races?

[scc]

So several races, or really racial add-ons have been sitting in my 'slush' pile for a few months now and as I stumbled upon them looking for something else a few days ago, each of these is supposed to be 25 points (Yeah, need to figure out a new ability for the Gnome) and is taken in addition to your normal race.

The Planear Power Modifier means you take whatever modifiers are for traveling to the Planes at your current location as modifier.

Plane-Touched:
Gnome:
Advantages: Damage Resistance 6 (Limited, Earth and Stone, -40%; Planear, -10%) [15]; Damage Resistance 1 (Tough Skin, -40%) [3]; Planaer Connection‡ [3]; Reputation +3 (Earth Elementals) [5].

Salamander
Advantages: Damage Resistance 6 (Limited, Fire and Heat, -40%; Planear, -10%) [15]; Planaer Connection‡ [3]; Reputation +3 (Fire Elementals) [5]; Temperature Tolerance 2 (Heat, Planear, -10%) [2].

Sylphs
Advantages: Damage Resistance 6 (Limited, Air and Weather, -40%; Planear, -10%) [15]; Planaer Connection‡ [3]; Reputation +3 (Air Elementals) [5]; Temperature Tolerance 2 (Cold, Planear, -10%) [2].

Undines
Advantages: Damage Resistance 6 (Limited, Dehydration and Water, -40%; Planear, -10%) [15]; Planaer Connection‡ [3]; Reputation +3 (Air Elementals) [5]; Temperature Tolerance 2 (Cold, Planear, -10%) [2].

‡ Planear Connection: This allows you to cast spells from the College with the same name as the Plane from which you connected, the Recover Energy spell, spells pertaining the planear travel to you're patron plane, and Enchantment College spells to make magic items. These spells take modifiers for the casting of Planear travel spells and not modifiers for magic, they also can't be affected directly by magic, a Fireball spell cast via this talent by a Salamander is not affected by a Counterspell spell, but is affected by a Reverse Missiles spell and it's damage is negated by a Resist Fire spell.

[johndallman]

Maybe. Some of these limited damage resistances (Fire) are distinctly more useful than others (Earth/Stone). Finding a way to get Waterbreathing into the Undine would make it much more attractive, since that eliminates a way of dying.

[Varyon]

As noted, some of the DR's are more useful than others, although a lot will depend on what capabilities opponents are likely to have (and exactly what counts). DR 6 vs weather is generally well beyond what would be necessary... but if that also applies to lightning bolt spells, it might be worth it.

Would having one of these metatemplates qualify you to be able to get further thematic Advantages? Things like Burrowing for Gnome, a Burning Innate Attack Aura for Salamander, Walk on Air for Sylph, and Amphibious/Water Breathing for Undine? I might be tempted to pick up one of the metatemplates largely to serve as an Unusual Background of sorts (but a functional one) to get normally-unavailable Advantages.

As for Water Breathing, you can get something akin to that for fairly cheap - Doesn't Breathe (Gills -50%; Oxygen Storage x100 -30%) [4] makes it so that you can breathe underwater, but only for a limited span at a time (100x as long as you could hold your breath without this trait) - basically you can breathe underwater, but you don't get quite enough oxygen from it and thus need to surface from time to time. If you want to make the trait worth an even [5], the progression for Oxygen Storage implies x150 would be -25%, for net -75% and [5].

[scc]

Originally Posted by Varyon

As noted, some of the DR's are more useful than others, although a lot will depend on what capabilities opponents are likely to have (and exactly what counts). DR 6 vs weather is generally well beyond what would be necessary... but if that also applies to lightning bolt spells, it might be worth it.

I had a target points cost of either 0 or 25 for these templates for because that's half a DF level and as I was scavenging for parts to make them up I ended up latching onto the DR from DF3 as a simple repeatable way of meeting that budget, and I'd say that means the DR does protect against lightning bolt spells.

Originally Posted by Varyon

Would having one of these metatemplates qualify you to be able to get further thematic Advantages? Things like Burrowing for Gnome, a Burning Innate Attack Aura for Salamander, Walk on Air for Sylph, and Amphibious/Water Breathing for Undine? I might be tempted to pick up one of the metatemplates largely to serve as an Unusual Background of sorts (but a functional one) to get normally-unavailable Advantages.

I hadn't thought about this before and the answer is probably yes, but keep in mind they can learn spells, so any Abilities that are replicated by Spells probably aren't going to be very common.

Originally Posted by Varyon

As for Water Breathing, you can get something akin to that for fairly cheap - Doesn't Breathe (Gills -50%; Oxygen Storage x100 -30%) [4] makes it so that you can breathe underwater, but only for a limited span at a time (100x as long as you could hold your breath without this trait) - basically you can breathe underwater, but you don't get quite enough oxygen from it and thus need to surface from time to time. If you want to make the trait worth an even [5], the progression for Oxygen Storage implies x150 would be -25%, for net -75% and [5].

The somewhat expensive Oxygen Absorption would probably be more representative of that these are.

[Pursuivant]

Overall, the templates are reasonable attempts to create "elemental infused" humans. Compare them to the Infused races from DF 3 - The Next Level with a cost of 75 points. Effectively, they're "Half-Infused", with reduced advantages.

Originally Posted by johndallman

Maybe. Some of these limited damage resistances (Fire) are distinctly more useful than others (Earth/Stone). Finding a way to get Waterbreathing into the Undine would make it much more attractive, since that eliminates a way of dying.

Earth-based creatures could have regular DR, offset by reduced Move & disads like Hidebound, Incurious, or Stubbornness.

Water-based creatures could have reduced DR, and Vulnerability to fire or dehydration, which would provide points for necessary advantages like Amphibious and Doesn't Breathe. Reduced Move (Land) could allow increased Move (Swimming). Appropriate mental disads are reduced Will, Absent-Minded, Impulsiveness, Indecisive, and Lazy.

The novel thing about the templates is the inherent Limited Magery, which is slightly expanded Single College Magery, but with several perks. If I'm reading the proposed perks correctly, I get:

* Better Modifiers - Spells take modifiers for Plane-Shifting rather than Regular spells." This might be better than a perk if you've using the distance modifiers for Warp or Information spells. Alternately, it's a Quirk if the modifiers are worse than standard magic spell modifiers.

* "Counterspell doesn't work vs. Planear magic, but the appropriate Resist [Element] spell works like Counterspell." This might count as a Feature, but since the prerequisite tree for the various Resist [Element] spells is much greater than that for Counterspell and there's potential surprise value, it's probably a Perk.

Per RAW, One-College Magery is a -40% limitation, add an Elemental Power Limitation of -10% (on top of the implied Magical limitation), and Accessibility (Only on appropriate elemental plane, or places strongly associated with it) -30% to drop the cost to the maximum -80% cost reduction. That gives you a RAW cost of 6 for Magery 1, 4 for Magery 2+.

The reason I'd allow the Elemental limitation is because you might need a fair bit of the appropriate element as a "material component" to perform magic, and because spells and powers which specifically counter your element are more effective at neutralizing it. Additionally, anything which blocks a link to the appropriate elemental plane also messes with your magic.

For example, if you're a Salamander ("Half-Fire Infused"), you don't just need to be in an area linked to the Elemental Plane of Fire (e.g., near a forest fire or active volcano), you also have to be actively waving torches around, or immolating yourself, to cast spells.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Overall, the templates are reasonable attempts to create "elemental infused" humans. Compare them to the Infused races from DF 3 - The Next Level with a cost of 75 points. Effectively, they're "Half-Infused", with reduced advantages.

That's the idea, but instead of the one of your ancestors getting freaky with an Elemental somehow, you, via mechanism unknown, are connected to one of the Planes.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Earth-based creatures could have regular DR, offset by reduced Move & disads like Hidebound, Incurious, or Stubbornness.

Water-based creatures could have reduced DR, and Vulnerability to fire or dehydration, which would provide points for necessary advantages like Amphibious and Doesn't Breathe. Reduced Move (Land) could allow increased Move (Swimming). Appropriate mental disads are reduced Will, Absent-Minded, Impulsiveness, Indecisive, and Lazy.

Some of these don't really work, these templates represent people touched by the Planes, not actual Elemental beings.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

The novel thing about the templates is the inherent Limited Magery, which is slightly expanded Single College Magery, but with several perks. If I'm reading the proposed perks correctly, I get:

* Better Modifiers - Spells take modifiers for Plane-Shifting rather than Regular spells." This might be better than a perk if you've using the distance modifiers for Warp or Information spells. Alternately, it's a Quirk if the modifiers are worse than standard magic spell modifiers.

Not quite, the Spells use the modifiers for Plane Shifting instead of Mana for casting purposes

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

* "Counterspell doesn't work vs. Planear magic, but the appropriate Resist [Element] spell works like Counterspell." This might count as a Feature, but since the prerequisite tree for the various Resist [Element] spells is much greater than that for Counterspell and there's potential surprise value, it's probably a Perk.

Resit [Element] or Banish or maybe even Close Gate would all work in the Counterspell role

[Ulzgoroth]

So to the original question, probably not. The only ability they have that is interesting to me is the planar connection, and a mono-element pseudo-mage isn't something I'd be very likely to want to do. (And if I did, it probably wouldn't be fire, which makes the costly DR buy pretty much wasted.)

[Donny Brook]

Do these templates lay a groundwork that fires the imagination, breathes life into a campaign and washes away doubts about the setting?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by scc

I had a target points cost of either 0 or 25 for these templates for because that's half a DF level and as I was scavenging for parts to make them up I ended up latching onto the DR from DF3 as a simple repeatable way of meeting that budget, and I'd say that means the DR does protect against lightning bolt spells.

With these DR's working against appropriate spells, and with a world that I presume has at least some DF sensibilities when it comes to enemies, I'd say these templates are indeed something I might be interested in.

Originally Posted by scc

I hadn't thought about this before and the answer is probably yes, but keep in mind they can learn spells, so any Abilities that are replicated by Spells probably aren't going to be very common.

There are some advantages to simply having an ability as opposed to needing to cast a spell for it, particularly if your character isn't that great at magic (note my Water Breathing suggestion as an example only costs [4], which I think would get you a Hard spell at IQ+0 and you'd need to pay more for prerequisites - or at least the Charm Perk - unless Planear Connection eliminates prerequisites). But, yeah, if magic can readily grant the abilities, there's little reason to invest in them as Advantages.

Originally Posted by scc

The somewhat expensive Oxygen Absorption would probably be more representative of that these are.

The way I look at the difference between Gills and Oxygen Absorption are 1) the former requires you to inhale water through your mouth to extract oxygen while the latter means you need only be in contact with an oxygenated fluid and 2) as implied by the above, Gills only work for oxygenated water while Oxygen Absorption works for any oxygenated fluid, potentially including gases that contain oxygen but would do Bad Things to characters who actually inhale them. Gills seems more appropriate to me for a character with a connection to the elemental plane of water than does Oxygen Absorption, but that's ultimately up to you, the GM.

Originally Posted by scc

That's the idea, but instead of the one of your ancestors getting freaky with an Elemental somehow, you, via mechanism unknown, are connected to one of the Planes.

... which, to be fair, may well have still involved one of your ancestors getting freaky with an Elemental somehow, just an ancestor markedly further back in your family history.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Do these templates lay a groundwork that fires the imagination, breathes life into a campaign and washes away doubts about the setting?

It took me a moment to see what you did there, but I approve.

[scc]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Do these templates lay a groundwork that fires the imagination, breathes life into a campaign and washes away doubts about the setting?

Well I'm also adding in the classic Elemental Planes with these as their kind of a package deal. My Elemental Planes are 4D, with the fourth dimension being distance below or above the surface for Air, Earth and Water, as an example for Water it's always infinite in the x and y dimension, but depth/z and is really a series of Planes, each with a different depth and the fourth dimension controls how deep the the sub-Plane your currently on goes.

Water becomes an infinite expanse for underwater adventures, Earth gets the Underdark, and Air becomes like Xen from Half-life, full of floating rocks. All four Elemental Planes also have three competing, contradictory arrangements in Planear space, all of which are true (People are very much advised not to think too hard about it)

Originally Posted by Varyon

There are some advantages to simply having an ability as opposed to needing to cast a spell for it, particularly if your character isn't that great at magic (note my Water Breathing suggestion as an example only costs [4], which I think would get you a Hard spell at IQ+0 and you'd need to pay more for prerequisites - or at least the Charm Perk - unless Planear Connection eliminates prerequisites). But, yeah, if magic can readily grant the abilities, there's little reason to invest in them as Advantages.

Well the prerequisites will need to be different at the very least, given they cross College boundaries normally).

Originally Posted by Varyon

The way I look at the difference between Gills and Oxygen Absorption are 1) the former requires you to inhale water through your mouth to extract oxygen while the latter means you need only be in contact with an oxygenated fluid and 2) as implied by the above, Gills only work for oxygenated water while Oxygen Absorption works for any oxygenated fluid, potentially including gases that contain oxygen but would do Bad Things to characters who actually inhale them. Gills seems more appropriate to me for a character with a connection to the elemental plane of water than does Oxygen Absorption, but that's ultimately up to you, the GM.

I looked them up and both of these don't involve breathing through he mouth/neck. The reason for Absorption over Gills is that morphological changes don't really fit, you have no connection to fish, but rather the Plane of Water.

Originally Posted by Varyon

... which, to be fair, may well have still involved one of your ancestors getting freaky with an Elemental somehow, just an ancestor markedly further back in your family history.

It's supposed to be spontaneous and unexplained, to further expand on options along these lines I plan to work out and offer Nymphs as a female only option with a Druid-like connection to nature.

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

So to the original question, probably not. The only ability they have that is interesting to me is the planar connection, and a mono-element pseudo-mage isn't something I'd be very likely to want to do. (And if I did, it probably wouldn't be fire, which makes the costly DR buy pretty much wasted.)

You'd still pick a 'class' as normal in addation to your second race.