Getting back into GURPS (Migrating to 4th?)

[David Johnston2]

Almost all of the 3rd edition books can be used as is. Just ignore passive defence and character point totals. Mind you I'd redesign all of the superhero characters but apart from that...

[Pursuivant]

A few other conversion tweaks:

Equipment in General: Increase LC by 1 & treat any LC of better than 4 as 4. Convert $ costs as appropriate from GURPS 3E supplements which use "TL-adjusted" dollars.

Melee Weapons: Can be used as-is, but take a look at weapons with a high Min ST requirement. Convert ST as necessary from 3E. Fencing weapons from GURPS 3E use specialized weapon skills (Rapier, Smallsword, etc.) rather than generic Fencing skill.

Guns and other projectile weapons: Ignore SS & Malf of Ver or Ver (Crit). Convert Crushing damage to appropriate version of Piercing (Pi-, Pi, P+, P++). Halve Acc, Convert Rcl from a negative to positive number.

Energy weapons: Generally converted from GURPS 3E to 4E in the GURPS 4E Ultratech book. Otherwise treat like Guns, except that damage type might be Burning or Corrosive rather than Crushing or Impaling.

Explosives: Some GURPS 3E explosives use weird mechanics. Unless there's a good reason to retain them just keep GURPS 3E damage total and use GURPS 4E rules.

Poisons & Venoms from GURPS 3E don't always have all the stats needed for conversion to 4E. In particular, "Onset" and "Number of Cycles" info is usually missing. You can use the unmodified rules from GURPS 3E, however, with few problems.

Characters and Character Templates: Mostly usable as-is with some conversion from GURPS Update. The only place you really run into trouble is with Psionic or Supers characters.

General rules mechanics: Mostly usable as-is, but make a GM executive decision as to whether things that result in "HT" loss actually represent HP loss. Also decide whether "Contest of Skills" means "Quick Contest of Skills" or an actual "Contest of Skills." The mechanics are different. Generally, QC works better.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

Yup, Attribute costs, no 1/2 point Skills (use a Perk called Dabbler instead),

Been holding off for 2 days, will not strong enough!!

I still miss the 1/2 point...

other than that I have no fundamental objection to any of the rule changes.

And the RAW difference between the speed at which a mage can build a missile spell between 3rd Edition and 4th Edition was a much needed game changer!

3ED and before start casting missile spell, each round add 1 point of energy at some point finish spell and cast (roll dice) then a round to throw the spell. So most 3 point missile spells would take a min of 4 rounds to fire. Build, Build, Build and Cast, Throw. Dog forbid if you wanted to aim!

4ED add UP to your Magery Level in energy to the spell (up to a max of 3 rounds of casting) at some point finish spell, cast and then 1 round to throw the spell. That same 3 point missile spell now takes 2 ROUNDS to fire(Since many Mage builds go with M/3). Build and Cast, Throw. I have as a mage even Aimed in the Wonderous New World!!

IMHO Missile spells are not top shelf go to spells, often other spells (like Invisibility) have more impact and flexibility than damage which might be dodged. But at least the change makes them practicable. Prior to 4th if I bought Missile spells they were mainly to satisfy prereqs, maybe to occasionally cast one and hold it heading into a certain combat, but not to cast in mid-combat.

[Densar]

Originally Posted by Rolando

ST changed a lot, you will feel big beasts are wimpy in 4e but they now use the same damage table for bites, so they are the same as 3e mostly, that is why I don't change stats, I use the same 3e stats with 4e. I also use the 3e vahicle stats (mechas in particular) with the 4e, even if there are some big changes there.

I’m looking at the specs for a T-Rex from GURPS Dinosaurs:

ST: 100-150
DX: 14
IQ:3
HT: 15/50-80
Speed/Dodge: 17/7#
PD/DR: 2/3
Damage: 5d+2 imp
Reach: C, 1, 2
Size: 13+
Wt: 4-6 tons

So, in 4th, he would have no passive defence, but how would the damage he does be adjusted? From what I could find, animal bite damage in 4th is Thrust -1 (p 460), and I guess they use the same scale as humans to find Thrust (so based on page 16, it would be 11d-1?) Or did I miss something?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Densar

I’m looking at the specs for a T-Rex from GURPS Dinosaurs:

ST: 100-150
DX: 14
IQ:3
HT: 15/50-80
Speed/Dodge: 17/7#
PD/DR: 2/3
Damage: 5d+2 imp
Reach: C, 1, 2
Size: 13+
Wt: 4-6 tons

So, in 4th, he would have no passive defence, but how would the damage he does be adjusted? From what I could find, animal bite damage in 4th is Thrust -1 (p 460), and I guess they use the same scale as humans to find Thrust (so based on page 16, it would be 11d-1?) Or did I miss something?

Well, to start with, in 4/e the relation of ST to weight is different. A weight of 5 tons (the middle of the range you cite) gives a ST of 43 (because the cube of 43/2 is 9838). If we round up to ST 45, we get weight of 11,390 lbs., Basic Lift of 405 lbs., and thrust damage of 5d. That's probably the most important revision to be made in going from 3/e to 4/e.

[Densar]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, to start with, in 4/e the relation of ST to weight is different. A weight of 5 tons (the middle of the range you cite) gives a ST of 43 (because the cube of 43/2 is 9838). If we round up to ST 45, we get weight of 11,390 lbs., Basic Lift of 405 lbs., and thrust damage of 5d. That's probably the most important revision to be made in going from 3/e to 4/e.

Thanks for clarifying. I would not have thought to associate strength with weight, but it makes sense (sorta). I also found the equations to "translate" ST from 3rd to 4th in the GURPS Update document. In this case at least, it comes down to having a similar damage. I'll compare a few other animals that I might use, but if they are somewhat similar, then I can simply use the specs as is when I decide to run a dinosaur game for my 9yo son (he loves dinosaurs -- go figure ;-).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Densar

Thanks for clarifying. I would not have thought to associate strength with weight, but it makes sense (sorta). I also found the equations to "translate" ST from 3rd to 4th in the GURPS Update document. In this case at least, it comes down to having a similar damage. I'll compare a few other animals that I might use, but if they are somewhat similar, then I can simply use the specs as is when I decide to run a dinosaur game for my 9yo son (he loves dinosaurs -- go figure ;-).

The most obvious interpretation of strength is "how much you can lift/drag/carry," and larger, heavier animals can manage greater loads.

[Mr_Sandman]

Originally Posted by Witchking

I still miss the 1/2 point...

I kind of liked the half-point too. I love characters with a broad scope of skills. Although I can see why it was eliminated. It makes skills even more fiddly.

Originally Posted by Witchking

4ED add UP to your Magery Level in energy to the spell (up to a max of 3 rounds of casting) at some point finish spell, cast and then 1 round to throw the spell. That same 3 point missile spell now takes 2 ROUNDS to fire(Since many Mage builds go with M/3). Build and Cast, Throw. I have as a mage even Aimed in the Wonderous New World!!

My mage just aimed in the session I played last Sunday.

Actually, missile spells in 4th are even a little bit better than you described them. You cast the spell and roll for success on your first turn, and then can enlarge them by putting more fatigue points, up to your Magery level, into them for one or two more turns after that, without needing to roll for it. That way you don't potentially waste time building a spell that you then fail to cast.

[Rolando]

Originally Posted by Densar

I’m looking at the specs for a T-Rex from GURPS Dinosaurs:

ST: 100-150
DX: 14
IQ:3
HT: 15/50-80
Speed/Dodge: 17/7#
PD/DR: 2/3
Damage: 5d+2 imp
Reach: C, 1, 2
Size: 13+
Wt: 4-6 tons

So, in 4th, he would have no passive defence, but how would the damage he does be adjusted? From what I could find, animal bite damage in 4th is Thrust -1 (p 460), and I guess they use the same scale as humans to find Thrust (so based on page 16, it would be 11d-1?) Or did I miss something?

What I do is not invest time converter a T-Rex to 4e, it still does 5d+2 imp when biting and can probably beat humans at arm wrestling, even with the tiny arms.

What I mean is that the stats used for combat is the T-Rex hit points, DX/Skill, defense (also from DX probably), armor and damage, the attributes are just a reference for multiple other things and unless you are planning to use the T-Rex for something more involved than combat then you will be more than fine just using the 3e combat-relevant stats.

[Densar]

Originally Posted by Rolando

What I do is not invest time converter a T-Rex to 4e, it still does 5d+2 imp when biting and can probably beat humans at arm wrestling, even with the tiny arms.

What I mean is that the stats used for combat is the T-Rex hit points, DX/Skill, defense (also from DX probably), armor and damage, the attributes are just a reference for multiple other things and unless you are planning to use the T-Rex for something more involved than combat then you will be more than fine just using the 3e combat-relevant stats.

That makes sense. As for characters, I've been playing with GCS to convert some. I've got one of the solo Conan adventures so will be running through that to get back into running GURPS, and have converted, more or less, Conan and Bêlít. We'll see how that goes...