Blending Star Trek and the World of Darkness (classic)

[Inky]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

There's a problem with doing that.

When it comes to vampires you are what you eat.

I'm not sure that that's a thing in WoD (other than possibly as a thing that vampires who feed on humans say to annoy vampires who feed on animals... that seems to be their equivalent of jokes about vegans). As Varyon mentioned, some Nosferatu seem to live on nothing but rats for long periods without apparent weird effects. A bigger difficulty with that, aboard a starship, is that they seem to need much more animal blood than they would human blood so it requires a lot of animals - you might need about two cows kept on board to keep one vampire going. On balance having a rota of human donors might be easier, depending how fast it regrows (WoD is unclear about whether this is the same as blood normally would or faster than that), especially if the Federation could think up some high-tech way of making it regrow faster, which they possibly could.

Yeah, sorry, Astromancer, it seems like you've been talking about changelings and mages and we've kept on discussing ways to break the game with vampires. I'm not sure I know much about Changeling, though, other than from hearsay.

The Rage thing might be less about whether the Garou have reason to fight the Federation and more that Garou, and some other types of Fera, were made as a warrior caste and seem to have some kind of a physiological need to beat the tar out of something every now and again - even if that's not useful.
Hmm. Is the Gaia they'll be dealing with in this actually the same Gaia, or a parallel-universe version of Gaia who's had time to get used to the fact that the humans are broadly on her side now? If so, she might reckon she's not as much in need of a warrior caste right now and might be able to fix the Rage thing. Or, if she can't or won't do that, she might be only too happy to give them permission to go and fight monsters in outer space somewhere and get out of her hair.
Apparently there are some Fera in WoD that don't have Rage - the Nuwisha (coyotes) and the Ananasi (spiders). So they might be fair game for Starfleet. (Although the Ananasi also seem to be bloodsuckers, but they need about half as much as the vampires).
Section 31 might like to get their hands on a Fera or two, too, with their ability to appear out of nowhere by phasing in and out of the Umbra.

Actually, didn't Astromancer assign the Garou to the Klingon Empire, not Earth, in the first posting of the thread? If so, I'm not sure whether we're still using that or not, though.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Moreover, who is to say that every planet with a living ecosystem isn't part of Gaia?

Well, that's an adventure seed right there. The ship is approaching a planet to get some scans/find supplies/track the Space Wedgie of the Week/whatever, when suddenly the Garou on board goes dead quiet. They ask him what's up, and he replies something along the lines of "I cannot feel Gaia on that planet. There is something very, very wrong about it..."

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

It would have to be for purely humanitarian reasons and completely consensual. That limits the pool of new vampires to people who were terminally ill or mortally wounded when they were turned.

It's also possible that superscience medicine or magic would find a way to reverse vampirism or similar conditions. In that case, existing vampires might serve a useful role as medics. "Vamp" the mortally wounded, allow surgeons to operate on the comatose/torpid neonate's corpse to fix any injuries or medical conditions they might have, allow the newly awakened neonate to feast on blood to heal their post-surgical injuries, then hit them with the anti-vampirism serum/ray to convert them back to human.

(For that matter, the "healing ray" devices that Starfleet Medical uses to instantly close wounds might be a scientific outgrowth of whatever trick vampires use to "lick their wounds closed," substituting strange energies for the mystic power of blood.)

Temporary vampirism might also be a method of treating otherwise incurable diseases or massive doses of poison or radiation. Vamp an otherwise doomed patient. Let them remain in vampire form for long enough to kill the pathogens or purge the toxins or radiation, then reverse the process.

Less ethical organizations might use temporary vampires as assassins or super-soldiers. Since vampires don't need to breath or drink water, they could survive in environments where air-breathing creatures couldn't survive, potentially defeating security scans. Once at their target, they use super strength, speed, and stealth to attack, drain their victims to heal and restore their powers, then head for the evac point. Once they're back to safety, the vampirism gets reversed so they can function normally. Section 31 would love to have assassins like that.

Well, in this case vampirism could very well be almost a mandatory perk for certain fleet officers. A sort of "emergency officer", responsible to deal with quick response emergency cases in situations like hull breaches and such.

For instance, you could sign a 5 or 10 pr 20 or whatever many years contract, upon which you remain as a vampire, and after that time you have your vampirism removed.

WoD has all the Generations issue thou, so if we are dealing with strict WoD that becomes less feasible. First of all, the 3rd Gen vampires are basically inhuman Gods - I see no feasible actions other than "kill on sight" policy with them.

Bellow those, at each generation the blood gets more "diluted". To the point that bellow the 13th Gen, vampirism not always happens (the victim can die during the "Kiss" rather than turning vampire), and bellow 15th Gen it cannot be created period.

So, to truly use vampirism, the Federation would need to keep a steady supply of potent low generation vampires. And they are rare. This means that healing vampirism is not an option for all those ancient, powerful and bastard 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th generations. So, society would be kind of playing in the hands of creatures with hundreds and even thousands of years, and creatures with strong antissocial tendencies and vast supernatural powers.

The other thing is that, the more vampires one vampire creates, the more susceptible to torpor. Things that increase a vampire's torpor are: age, lower generation, diablerri (devouring other vamps souls) and the amount of vampires one creates.

Constantly breeding what maybe could be as far as MILLIONS of vampires every day is basically guaranteed to have all those 4th to 7th gen vamps (at the very least) to be PERMANENTLY under torpor, with ZERO chance of ever waking up. So this would raise some ethical issues, for those creatures would basically be put under an ethernal comatose for the sole purpose of extracting their powers.

Imagine a "Matrix-like" scene with some hundreds to a few thousands of vamps filled with tubes injecting them constantly with fresh blood, with other tubes constantly extracting it, turning those beings into mere "blood refineries". An absolutely gruesome fate to which some people may object.

On the other hand... Some billions of people benefitting from the fate of a few thousands may be enough to qualm any moral considerations... And one of those "vampiric blood factories" may just be too good of business selling bottled vamp blood to let it pass just because it is "unethical"

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

We've been talking about Vampires a lot. How about Changelings and Imbued Hunters? Each of these groups would provide special challenges. Both tend to be humans under different degrees of possession by alien spirits.

Changellings are NOT humans thou. Imbued I agree.

The Imbued would undoubtedly be recruited into an elite "Special Forces" that deals exclusively with dealing with the many "Night Critters", making sure that all the crazy supernatural denizens with demi-God powers are upholding the law, and there would probably be "anti-vigilantism" laws to prevent Imbued individuals to take matters on their own hands.

Mages would probably have unified under a sort of syncretic paradigm that probably unifies mysticism and technology; so the "Awakened" individuals would probably be highly regarded by society given their limitless potential, and the stuff they create would immensely benefit society, even if not replicable in large industrial scale. That is, assuming they are not just simply the Technocracy after having eliminating all opposition, upon which "Mages" would just simply be the hidden lords of at least the humanity (if not the entire Federation), and nobody would know they actually exist.

Changellings would be patrons of arts, and closely watched by authorities (who would be quick to send units of Imbued onto them). The Seelie would thrive, the Unseelie would have a lot more troubles. They would be see as fascinating for some, troublemakers by others, and could be both disruptive for society and greatly beneficial, all at the same time.

Wraiths: are they included? The Federation would be smart to recruit teams of Helldivers to hunt down rogue Spetres, as well as a bunch of "necromancers", ranging from Vampires and Mages capable of dealing with the dead. Ghosts can be used as efficient assassins and spies. I can also see special groups of "parapsychologists", specialized with "Wraith Psicology" offering "therapy" to Angst ridden Wraiths to be better able to deal with their Shadows. "Parapsychology" would be a renowed field of the "behavioral sciences".

Shapeshifters: I can envision nothing but "reservations" for Shapeshifters, where they live with their human and animal parents. Some Shapeshifters would have jobs in the government as special advisors, special forces and intelligence and such. Under those reservations, they would have self determination.

Mummies: those beings are rare, but would probably be well regarded. Possibly would join the Imbued as the "Monsters Police", and as special advisors for the government and military.

Spirits: either power sources or "kill on sight". There would probably be entire divisions of Mages and Shapeshifters specialized in dealing with them. Chimeras ("spirits" from the Fae Dreaming world) would be dealt by Changellings and Mages. There would probably be some amount of social integration between spirits and human society - familiars and fetishes, while not universal, would probably be common enough to be common knowledge, and possibly would be ostensibly used by the wealthiest individuals, as well as corporations, government and military. Totems may be used with some regularity by government and military.
- This however means that Spirits will have a high impact upon society. This universe would have a much higher "spirituality", with religion being a highly important aspect of the daily lives of individuals. Offerings to the spirits are very common, and most aspects of day to day life would probably be ritualized in some level.
On the positive side, this would probably be a much more orderly society; having the certanty that REAL spirits are constantly watching you would probably contribute for people to be on their best behaviors.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Many shifters become Umbral travelers. Leaving Gaia far behind. They don't lose their powers. Moreover, who is to say that every planet with a living ecosystem isn't part of Gaia?

In WoD the barriers to the Spirit world kind of disappear under deep space. Deep Umbra and Deep Space are basically one and that same.

That means that the Shapeshifters do not lose their powers outside of Earth.

It also means that the Federation Fleet better take heed, as they may stumble into Cthulhu-esque monstruosities floating around when they are warping from one place to another (now THAT is an adventure seed).

The Void Engineers, one of the conventions of the Technocracy, is in fact well prepared to fight the "things-men-were-not-meant-to-know" that they find on Deep Space from time to time.

About Gaia, I highly doubt that Gaia extends over alien worlds. I mean, there probably is one universal "Spirit of Life" that oversees ALL life throughout the entire universe, but Gaia is NOT such massive spirit and it is undoubtly restricted to Earth. I doubt that there would be wolves in Volcano to which werewolves could breed with, and whatever spirits there are there, they would be totally alien to the Earth's shapeshifters.

One interesting concept I just thought: maybe Gaia (the Incarna spirit) has become VERY keen on "Terraforming" processes of sterile planets. That could be one hell of a way to expanding Gaia's influence in ways the great spirit never even considered before, and the Shapeshifters could prove instrumental to that effort, helping transport spirits safely protected into fetishes that will "seed" the planet with Earthling life.

So, the Shapeshifters could be the "ecologists" at the head of any Terraforming projects (aided by scientists and Mages)

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by KarlKost

About Gaia, I highly doubt that Gaia extends over alien worlds. I mean, there probably is one universal "Spirit of Life" that oversees ALL life throughout the entire universe, but Gaia is NOT such massive spirit and it is undoubtly restricted to Earth.

Some of the earlier seasons of Star Trek: Discovery touched on the notion of a universal Gaia, with excursions to a "Mycelial Plane" (which might be a region of subspace).

If there's a universal layer of subspace which has a structure reminiscent of Earthly saphrophytes, which breaks down matter and energy from ordinary space, then there could be a generative and life-giving realm of space which interlinks life across the galaxy.

Later seasons of Discovery peripherally featured a planet where the inhabitants had a physical link to its biosphere, allowing them to control the planet's animals. Very Gaia-like.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Some of the earlier seasons of Star Trek: Discovery touched on the notion of a universal Gaia, with excursions to a "Mycelial Plane" (which might be a region of subspace).

If there's a universal layer of subspace which has a structure reminiscent of Earthly saphrophytes, which breaks down matter and energy from ordinary space, then there could be a generative and life-giving realm of space which interlinks life across the galaxy.

Later seasons of Discovery peripherally featured a planet where the inhabitants had a physical link to its biosphere, allowing them to control the planet's animals. Very Gaia-like.

I think it would be interesting if alien worlds had their own shapeshifters. Like "Were-Wogons" from Volcano...

Like I said, I have no doubt that there would be an Universal spirit of life that connects all life throughout the universe, but that wouldnt be the Gaia of the Garou, and each alien world would have its own "Gaia-like" great spirit.

As for the "Universal Spirit-God of Life", such a being would be such an unfathomable creature that the "bacteria" (like us) that it spawns couldnt possibly even perceive it, let alone conceive of.

Each world with life on would be like a single cell to this "super-organism", and we would be like tiny atoms

[Inky]

What's a "wogon"? Translation issue?

You might get were-targs on the Klingon planet!

WoD's "cosmology" seems to be a contradictory muddle, honestly, so you could do it whichever way fits - the werewolves seem to think that Gaia is the highest god, but they might be wrong about that, some of the other WoD species seem to think it works differently.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Inky

WoD's "cosmology" seems to be a contradictory muddle, honestly,.

At least in the old days this was absolutely on purpose. Every faction in the WoD sees things from their own viewpoint and all narrators are unreliable. I "think" the GM was supposed to pick one to be _his_ Truth at least on a temporary basis i.e. until the adventure was done.

For these reasons there never was an objective and unified truth.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Inky

What's a "wogon"? Translation issue?

"Oh, you dont have one of those? Big horns, hooves, trample everything? Oh, they are nasty"

It was just some random name for some hipotetical alien beast.

You might get were-targs on the Klingon planet!

WoD's "cosmology" seems to be a contradictory muddle, honestly, so you could do it whichever way fits - the werewolves seem to think that Gaia is the highest god, but they might be wrong about that, some of the other WoD species seem to think it works differently.

That much is true - for the Werewolf game line.

It is a possible choice, no doubt, but exclusively in my opinion, a more boring one, and I think that having a different "Gaia" for each planet would be more fun, but that's an entirely subjective preference on my part, and there's no right or wrong in this. If your preference would be a single Gaia, it is perfectly valid just the same.

And yes, each game line of WoD has its own cosmology, and that's pretty much on purpose. The "true truth" lf it all is actually one big mystery, and I personally like it to be this way, I like when there are uncertainties and mysteries that cannot be solved. The person creating the world can choose whatever they enjoy most.

I suggestion I would make, since the point would be to create a "WoD on Space", maybe some ideas from Chronicles of Darkness would be nice. Im not a super fan of the "WoD 2.0", but there are a few interesting crits that could be added. For instance, the Fae from CoD are remarkable, with all the kidnapping and twisting thing; I always HATED the Were-beasts from WoD and their hippie "eco-shaman-heroes" thing (no offense to those that like the game), and I slightly prefer the shapeshifters from CoD. I also like the ahhh... Goddam, I forgot the name of the game... Anyway, it's the one... Oh yes, "Prometheans", were you play as artificial constructs that gain life by some weird accident, like the "Golems" and "Frankensteins". I found that concept fascinating.