Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-15-2022, 12:09 PM   #1
agentdenton
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Default You got magic in my scifi game!

You can call it the force, psionics, mutant abilities, 'grokking' or whatever you want, if it's in a scifi game it's magic by another name.

I saw a thread about it on another site. Some people wanted nary an iota of it in their SF games, others asked about systems that did it right.

In my opinion, if you're going to have magic by another name, MBAN, in a sf game it should not eclipse or overshadow the science fiction parts. It should be fairly limited, have some sort of rationale and not just overwhelm technology.

So yes, by my definition here star wars is horrible. At first the force was limited. Sure vader could force choke a skeptic at close range, but he still had to climb in a fighter and use laser cannons to kill fighter ships.

Later palpatine could overpower an ENTIRE ARMADA OF SHIPS with just his force power. (I don't wanna hear about the 'diadumb' thing)

That is a really bad way to put magic in a scifi game as it basically dominates the game utterly.

Traveller had psionics, but they were not game breaking and could be countered by technical means. Ok

My current game, BL23C 7E, has 'matrix powers ' that are built in to 3 of the 12 races, each race has a serious nerf to it and low level powers are quite weak. Yes a matrix user can level up up and away to more potent abilities in time, but the non users can buy better armor, Shields, weapons, equipment and increase their skills, so a matrix user can't dominate a player group.

In the game matrix use has a type of explanation, one of the oldest races in the universe evolved on a planet with extremely high radiation levels and developed the ability to feed on and manipulate radiation as a survival necessity. It's possible this race genetically engineered matrix powers in two other races for it's own purposes.

Maximum level matrix power can destroy planets or whole sectors of space, yes, and are beyond a PC to ever reach. They make great plot devices.

If you run a scifi game what do you think of MBAN? None at all, some limited stuff, equal to technology or full on unstoppable force?

Last edited by agentdenton; 07-15-2022 at 12:13 PM.
agentdenton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 12:19 PM   #2
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentdenton View Post
If you run a scifi game what do you think of MBAN? None at all, some limited stuff, equal to technology or full on unstoppable force?
It should have a scientific (even if rather hand-wavy) explanation. Think Lovecraft’s treatment of magic as simply super advanced understanding of geometry in Dreams in the Witch House.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 12:28 PM   #3
agentdenton
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
It should have a scientific (even if rather hand-wavy) explanation. Think Lovecraft’s treatment of magic as simply super advanced understanding of geometry in Dreams in the Witch House.
Yeee-eeeessss, I have often considered a lot of HPL as sf, especially stories like mountains of madness. Good call.
agentdenton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 12:38 PM   #4
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentdenton View Post

So yes, by my definition here star wars is horrible. At first the force was limited. Sure vader could force choke a skeptic at close range, but he still had to climb in a fighter and use laser cannons to kill fighter ships.

Later palpatine could overpower an ENTIRE ARMADA OF SHIPS with just his force power. (I don't wanna hear about the 'diadumb' thing)

That is a really bad way to put magic in a scifi game as it basically dominates the game utterly.

Traveller had psionics, but they were not game breaking and could be countered by technical means. Ok
Star Wars is horrible by any account lol.

Another possibility too is to have technology as magic. Things like nanorrobots, mind controlling devices and supercomputers, althought I know that's not exactly what you were looking for.
KarlKost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 12:50 PM   #5
agentdenton
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
Star Wars is horrible by any account lol.

Another possibility too is to have technology as magic. Things like nanorrobots, mind controlling devices and supercomputers, althought I know that's not exactly what you were looking for.

Yeah, it it's something you could buy or acquire in a world, maybe not magic. If it's more like ''you were born to be a wizard/Jedi/chosen one'' then it's likely MBAN.
agentdenton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 12:53 PM   #6
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by agentdenton View Post
So yes, by my definition here star wars is horrible.
Star Wars was always a Fantasy story with a thin layer of SciFi coating.
WingedKagouti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 12:55 PM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post

Another possibility too is to have technology as magic. Things like nanorrobots, mind controlling devices and supercomputers, althought I know that's not exactly what you were looking for.
Sorry, I already rate those things as magic pretending to be technology.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 01:42 PM   #8
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Sorry, I already rate those things as magic pretending to be technology.
It's the "pretending to be technology" that makes it science fiction rather than fantasy. H.G. Wells was explicit about that in discussing his own stories.

Bill Stoddard
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 01:51 PM   #9
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
It's the "pretending to be technology" that makes it science fiction rather than fantasy. H.G. Wells was explicit about that in discussing his own stories.

Bill Stoddard
It's all fiction but what got me was using those items as _realistic_ technology pretending to be magic.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2022, 01:54 PM   #10
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: You got magic in my scifi game!

I like both hard science fiction games and soft "scifi" games. To me its all about signaling. The problem comes when someone thinks we are doing one and it turns out we're doing the other.

My current discord group is playing some very soft science fiction, with psionics clearly front and center. Its a fun game. I don't know that I handled everything the way I should have, but we could not have played that game without psionics in a space setting.

Our next game is going to have a single piece of super-science, depicted as the inciting incident, and that's it. Its a much more down to earth game. I think we're going to have a lot of fun doing that too.

I think people mostly get into trouble when they're not clear about what "magic" is available and how much of it there will be. Or when they think that science fiction is mostly about predicting the future, when its mostly about entertainment, and perhaps exploring the implications of one or two possible future situations.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.