Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2018, 03:40 AM   #1
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Implicit detection magic

Only magic that explicitly allows it should be capable of divination, like the Trance spell, wishes, and crystal balls.

There are several spells which can be used for types of detection, however, and I think that should be allowed, within reason (which is determined by the GM), they just shouldn't be capable of divination (answering questions about the future, etc.). I think even some computation should be allowed, although a pass/fail exam grading gate does sound unreasonable...

Here's what I think is a reasonable limitation: magic rules should be based on currently potentially observable properties of a subject (even observable through telepathy). I think it fits the "king of a far-away city sneezed" example in Expunge. "Currently observable" should be limited to the last couple minutes or so. Thoughts, missions, intentions, etc. would be OK but sifting through memories would not (even though memories themselves are current properties).

These are the spells I've found, so far, that can be used for detection but are not specifically "detection spells":

Calling
Limiting Spell
Expunge
Blast Trap
Gate
Control Gate (temporary gate rules are cheap)
Proxy

Last edited by zot; 07-19-2018 at 04:19 AM. Reason: removed telepathic and control spells
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 03:55 AM   #2
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Implicit detection magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Only magic that explicitly allows it should be capable of divination, like the Trance spell, wishes, and crystal balls.

...
Hi Zot,
Interesting post. Could you give an example? If I cast a Control Person on you, how would this work? I say, "Tell me super secret stuff about the Prom of Horror!", which you are trying to keep secret. What would change?

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 04:18 AM   #3
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Implicit detection magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Zot,
Interesting post. Could you give an example? If I cast a Control Person on you, how would this work? I say, "Tell me super secret stuff about the Prom of Horror!", which you are trying to keep secret. What would change?

Warm regards, Rick.
In the case of Telepathy, Control, and Obey, I don't think anything would change. I'll restrict the list to rule-based magic.
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2018, 10:33 AM   #4
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Implicit detection magic

Examples:

Calling: Lets you know if there is a being of the called type within range. If you're pretty sure you want to catch a specific person, and they're a rare type hiding somewhere, you can supposedly retrieve the nearest one... makes catching hobbit spies easy, or determining if there are any people/creatures of a certain type nearby.

Limiting spell - used on an item that works automatically when worn, allows you to detect the thing it limits even when it might not otherwise be determinable.

Expunge/Blast Trap say "any condition may be set" as long as it in co-located. Any? Can we set it to activate on spies? Disloyal people? People carrying concealed items of a type? People with IQ exactly 14? People who know the Insubstantiality spell? People who know Unarmed Combat IV? People who have met with Tollenkar in the last month?

Seems like there should be limits, or else they can be used for perhaps-too-clever information-gathering. At what point the line crosses from clever/interesting to abusive/unfun/undermining is sort of a matter of taste, but is currently left up to the GM... and unfortunately once a GM is lured into letting something clever work, may face having an inconsistent or annoying situation later.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2018, 12:44 PM   #5
Steve Jackson
President and EIC
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: Implicit detection magic

The GM with good players can say "That's going to create problems if we keep it up." The GM who thinks he has to seem infallible may roll dice and say "You didn't make it this time." Or just "There was something going on there that you didn't know about."
Steve Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2018, 01:58 PM   #6
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: Implicit detection magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Examples:

Calling: ...
Limiting spell ...
Expunge/Blast Trap say ...

Seems like there should be limits, ...
Hi Skarg, everyone.
I totally agree. As for Calling, I think there should be some sort of saving throw, so it is good at bringing minions, but less likely to draw out the boss. (Say a 3vsIQ?)

For the others, how does this sound...

Rules for limiting and selection type magic must follow these guidelines:

The following rules must be met:
-- Information must be local (within 5 meters of the item / spell).
-- Information can not be based on the skills, memories or thoughts of someone.
-- Information can not be based on events in the past.
-- Information that requires analysis is unreliable. (e.g., checking for weapons is OK, but what about a weapon that is disassembled into harmless parts? Such an item is very likely to be overlooked.)

The following ARE OK:
-- Information about bloodlines. (Altho, in a score of generations blood lines tend to be either very wide spread or non-existent.)
-- Items carried (even if concealed about the person).
-- Events that take place near the item are not limited to the past rule. So you could require a dance that takes 5 minutes, so long as the entire dance was within 5 meters of the item.


Can anyone think of other useful rules and guidelines?

Warm regards, Rick
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2018, 07:14 PM   #7
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Implicit detection magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post

The following ARE OK:
-- Information about bloodlines. (Altho, in a score of generations blood lines tend to be either very wide spread or non-existent.)
-- Items carried (even if concealed about the person).
-- Events that take place near the item are not limited to the past rule. So you could require a dance that takes 5 minutes, so long as the entire dance was within 5 meters of the item.
I'd like to add:
-- Enchanted/non-enchanted status of an entity
-- Possibly, basic information on magical ability - can be justified by saying that mages have a distinctive aura.

Both of these might reasonably require the casting wizard to have Detect/Analyze Magic, though.
Anomylous is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.