Pros and cons of growing your own island nation?

[AlonzoTheGurpsPlayer]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Make yourself useful in some way to one of the big powers, and get them to recognize you, and you've gone a long way toward it. If your world is like the real one of today politically, if you can get the USA, most of Europe, and China to recognize you, you're most of the way home.

Make a point of not being a thorn in the side of the big powers, and they might grant your recognition almost as a routine matter...unless your display of raw power in making the island has convinced everyone that you're a threat that has to be destroyed.

That could go either way, the recognition of that power might lead to respectful acceptance, or it might lead to all-out-attack.

I think the most useful thing an island maker could do for other countries is either produce more resources or territory (or even make land bridges). If you put points into bio magic maybe you can even produce super soldiers for countries... Might want to look into wide spread protection if magic isn't common

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Johan Larson

I think this new nation is going to need at least one major power (US? Europe? China?) to back its claims to legitimacy, and none of the others particularly opposed.

Japan. Propose to make more such islands to it in exchange for recognition of some of your own. AFAIK they would be interested. The question becomes regarding the ratio.

[Dangerious P. Cats]

If you could make an island could you also make it with copious natural resources? I imagine that you'd be well recognised if your island was rich in minerals though it would pay not to mention this until you have a population and infrastructure since I doubt world powers would blink at annexing it if they only had to deal with a small party of people.

In terms of populating your island the citizens of a number of island nations are looking for a new home due to their islands being flooded by rising sea levels. Assuming you had sufficient politics and diplomacy you could try and transfer much of their population and infrastructure to your new island nation (assuming its creation didn't further flood their old homes). Once settled having the citizens and infrastructure of existing nations essentially merge into yours would make recognition much easier.

[vicky_molokh]

Come to think of it, perhaps agreeing to increase the size/height of an island which is being flooded might be a way to 'buy' a government of your own instead of making it from scratch.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

But whether or not you can be an effective state, in practice and not just in the letter of international law, has a lot more to do with the behavior of all the other states.

Yeah. I think the behavior of other states is far more important in this matter. Let's say for a second that your Island Grower grows an island and puts some refugees on it, but otherwise has no power worth noting. There's no resources, no airport, no dock facilities, nothing worth trading. I'm sure nations might wave their hands and say "Sure, whatevs man, you're a country." If you do have valuable resources or useful people, but no power worth speaking of, they'll likely say that you're not a nation, and plop some "peacekeepers" there and allow some big country to exploit your resources. On the other hand, if you populate it with mutant cyborgs and military installations sufficient to deter an attack and have useful resources and are willing to trade and play ball and make some other countries wealthy provided they cooperate, then you're a real country and you get a seat at the big boy's table. If you have all of the above without a willingess to play ball, then you're a rogue nation.

How useful is your little island to other countries? How useful is it to acknowledge your little island as a country? How easily can some big political bully knock your little island country down?

[Seneschal]

With the Compartmentalized Mind (noncombat) (100 castings/second), couldn't he just drop millions of cubic metres of earth from high up, devastating any major city? I mean, no nation would refuse to recognize his legitimacy if he threatened to bury their capitals.

Even if he's not a villain, no one is going to risk pushing him. I mean, what can they do? Surround the island with ships? I doubt even aircraft carriers can survive a hundred tons of rock raining down from the stratosphere.

[AlonzoTheGurpsPlayer]

Originally Posted by Seneschal

With the Compartmentalized Mind (noncombat) (100 castings/second), couldn't he just drop millions of cubic metres of earth from high up, devastating any major city? I mean, no nation would refuse to recognize his legitimacy if he threatened to bury their capitals.

Even if he's not a villain, no one is going to risk pushing him. I mean, what can they do? Surround the island with ships? I doubt even aircraft carriers can survive a hundred tons of rock raining down from the stratosphere.

IDHMBWM but I think according to RAW you have to create earth on existing ground or in a body of water

[Jerander]

Originally Posted by AlonzoTheGurpsPlayer

IDHMBWM but I think according to RAW you have to create earth on existing ground or in a body of water

I think you're correct. However, a workaround could be using the Flexible Magic (Is that the correct section?) rules in Thaumatology and apply a "Cosmic: Earth can be created in mid-air, +50%" to the casting for +10 FP and -10 to skill...

Speaking of Flexible Magic, could you add Reduced Time, +20% (one or more levels) to the Volcano spell to increase it's growth rate?

[Jasonft]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Come to think of it, perhaps agreeing to increase the size/height of an island which is being flooded might be a way to 'buy' a government of your own instead of making it from scratch.

I hadn't thought of that. Assuming you can make a deal with the locals, you might even gain a horde of ready-made minions in the bargain.

Obviously an Earth mage straight out of Fantasy with the power to reshape an island would find it trivial to give it perfect soil for growing things and almost as trivial to build reefs and breakwaters to protect a near perfect harbor. Add in some cliffs around the edges for tsunami protection and you have some very thankful (and thoroughly cowed) locals willing to do most anything to keep you happy.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Jasonft

I hadn't thought of that. Assuming you can make a deal with the locals, you might even gain a horde of ready-made minions in the bargain.

Obviously an Earth mage straight out of Fantasy with the power to reshape an island would find it trivial to give it perfect soil for growing things and almost as trivial to build reefs and breakwaters to protect a near perfect harbor. Add in some cliffs around the edges for tsunami protection and you have some very thankful (and thoroughly cowed) locals willing to do most anything to keep you happy.

I actually meant the sort of locals that would be TL8. Still impressed, but can actually offer you stuff other than FP.