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08-11-2018, 12:02 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Are Powers Overpriced?
Consider Divine Favor and Sorcery, two builds of the Powers system that feature extensive use of Alternate Abilities. In theory, you're getting a massive price break (1/5 cost) for the restriction that you can't use two of these miracles/spells at the same time. But in play, that restriction really isn't that restrictive; compare it to massive Limitations, where the most limiting of them have a tendency to top out around -50%; and the rare -80% Limitations are things like “Accessibility: One Person” — restrictions that almost totally cripple the ability.
Originally, when it was Alternate Attacks, the pricing made some sense: the discount came from the fact that the two Attacks had near-complete overlap in their utility, with each attack doing more or less the same thing as the others (i.e., inflict damage on the target), just in different ways. The price break was because the additional Attacks didn't add much to your capabilities. But when it got generalized to Alternate Abilities, that went out the window: now you could take Abilities designed for drastically different situations, Abilities where you'd be unlikely to find yourself stressing out over which one to sacrifice in order to use the other one — certainly not “one-fifth of the price” levels of nail-biting. Yet no one complains that the Alternate Abilities are too cheap. Indeed, people seem to flock to Divine Favor and Sorcery because, after an initial investment in the “core ability”, they don't have to pay full price for their prayers or spells. People seem quite satisfied with the costs of Sorcery's spells. So is it possible that the problem is on the other end? Are Abilities without the Alternate Abilities discount too expensive? |
08-11-2018, 05:25 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Maybe? I can see the logic you're presenting: why pay for "use two at the same time" when you never will?
I don't think, though, that there's an absolute answer: frequency like that is always going to be hard to predict. Unless you attach a die roll to switching Alternate Abilities you can't guarantee it's a restriction. Same for the alternative. |
08-11-2018, 07:08 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Some advantages are overpriced, Regroth I'm looking at you.
Overall I think most are fine, the AA pricing is like Hero Systems multipower slots. Most powers will be in one but some need to be used together like a defense and an attack.
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My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries |
08-11-2018, 07:19 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Alternate Powers are a central part of the system in many ways, which is why Supers ruthlessly takes advantage of them. The primary disadvantage though is that it is not that you cannot use both powers together, it is that if one power is countered or crippled, both powers are countered or crippled. There are times when you want to use multiple powers though.
For example, you could have a character with Psychokinesis and the Powers of Flight plus Enhanced Move Fight 3 [100], DR 20 with Force Field and Physical Only [100], and Crushing Attack 8d with Malediction 2, No Blunt Trauma, and No Signature [100]. Now, they could be alternate abilities of each other, meaning that the character saves 160 points, but the character could not fly, defend, and attack during the same turn, which could be a problem. The extra tactical utility of simultaneous utilization makes characters much more powerful than they otherwise would be. |
08-11-2018, 07:26 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Obviously as a generic system GURPS needs to be tweaked for specific types of games. But speaking generically, suppose a "standard"-ish party of: mundane physical specialist, mundane mental specialist, caster, and power wielder. Each of these pays an expensive initial buy-in cost (this helps produce some specialization) and then a cost for additional abilities.
Mundane physical expensive buy-in: physical attributes cheap additional abilities: physical skills Mundane mental expensive buy-in: mental attributes cheap additional abilities: mental skills Caster expensive buy-in: Magery (or PI, etc.), IQ cheap additional abilities: spells Power Wielder expensive buy-in: full-cost ability/abilities cheap additional abilities: alternative abilities Now each of these boring categories is extremely general and can be specialized infinite ways of course. And don't forget, the Power Wielder can't just buy any old power as an AA. From P11: "The GM shouldn’t permit abilities with incompatible in-game explanations as alternatives." So are powers overpriced? Well...yes, buying just one ability of a power is overpriced. Just as buying Magery to have only one spell is overpriced (somewhat hyperbolic example I know). GURPS is pushing you to pick a niche and go with it, and I think that's a good thing... |
08-11-2018, 07:41 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
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08-11-2018, 08:46 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Regrowth with Regeneration is a powerful combination, anyone who just buys Regrowth is just not spending their points well.
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08-11-2018, 09:06 AM | #8 | |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Quote:
In the WWII M-a-P campaign, four characters work that way, and we also have a Path/Book caster and a character with a thematically restricted syntactic magic system. In the other, set in the 1930s, everyone uses M-a-P, but in very different ways. What I think I've learned from this is that Abilities are good value, if you put the effort into using the enhancements and limitations in ways that save points and do what you want as well. Sorcery and Divine Favor are frameworks that do that for you quite well. Psionic Powers put more effort into achieving a particular style and flavour than it did into being point-efficient, which means that it's a bit underpowered in some ways, as compared to hermetic magic, but picking the right powers lets it do things that the hermetic magicians have trouble with.
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
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08-11-2018, 09:17 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
I feel Sorcery was balanced by the absolute requirement of the Costs FP limitation, which for a low, low rebate turns everything it touches into one-fifth the useability. Of course, without that, it’s pretty terribly underpriced.
I never let players design AA wholecloth, so I can keep things balanced, but if you do, what it comes down to is that game balance is fiction anyway.
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08-11-2018, 10:19 AM | #10 |
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Meifumado
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Re: Are Powers Overpriced?
Any significant amounts of DR always seemed overpriced to me, and it's hard to make it an Alternative Ability of something.
You're more likely to want high DR in a high-TL setting, facing higher damage weapons, but then you can purchase high DR armour more easily. So having high enough DR as a trait costs more and more, but is more easily made redundant by equipment.
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