[OOC] Worlds of Fire

[Totem]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I'll be sure to specifically indicate when I use an influence roll in the future. Given that the possibilities include lies, I thought that was a GM roll made when appropriate.

I prefer not to have to second guess what players want me to roll on their behalf when it comes to things like this; what I think is appropriate won't necessarily be you think is, plus there's the role-playing element of it to decide which skill (if there is a choice) your character would use. At the very least I need an indication of what skill you are using (for instance in this case Public Speaking would probably have been useful for recital of pseudo-poetry).

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

My character possesses no other language but his native one, so that is what he is speaking... Thus I assume that is what Eight is hearing. There is obviously no way for me to have any information on Eight's native language...

Eight is hearing you speak English. But there's a wonderful moment in one Youtube video I found (Lazy Teenage Superheroes) where one of the villains points out that the telepathic abilities of one of the heroes won't work on him because he thinks in Spanish (despite speaking English fluently). We're looking at the same thing here: appreciating something in its original language and appreciating it when it is translated into your own language (where the rhyme and rhythm are going to be totally different) are two different things.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

A penalty of -15 is far beyond my character's ability to overcome. With a effective skill of -1 (for Alec's best influence skill, though I would characterize this particular attempt as Diplomacy, giving him an effective skill of -3), success cannot be possible even on a roll of 3, so there is no recourse but a general reaction roll, with the possible results being a "Disastrous" or "Very Bad" reaction, the results of which are 'check for combat at -2' meaning on any roll but 18 he attacks us, or in the best case scenario, he "maliciously lies" on a roll of 16-18 on the reaction check.

So I'm not sure what you are expecting us to do other than to simply let Codina do the talking. With an effective skill of 5 in a quick contest with Eight's Will, there is at least a slim chance of success. Any attempt to do differently seems not only completely futile but almost certainly harmful.

Did you want me to make a roll against effective skill Negative 3 to see just how bad the margin of failure is? It shouldn't matter for Diplomacy, as you can't make things worse.

((Sorry if this is coming off grumpy, I'm fighting a nasty flu and I'm, well, grumpy.))

It's fair enough... I'm trying to put numbers around something that is inherently difficult to put numbers around. Any penalty in this kind of thing has to account for Eight being: immortal, not having English as a default language, having a totally different worldview from any of you, having a totally different agenda... Some kind of roll based on Diplomacy would be the best here, making use of logical reasoning rather than argument in order by bypass language issues; what your character considers to be logical compared to everyone else's personal idea of logic is your choice.

[Ransom]

Passing on Trickster at this point is a good thing... Eight might not have reacted very well. It sounds like you just went for Xenophilia without bothering with the roll, which I'm sure should provide some kind of reaction bonus, but apparently doesn't.

It is a disadvantage, after all. Even if the multiverse weren't at stake she'd probably keep pestering this fellow until he either sat down for a chat or vaporized her.

Eight's natural temperament is to be cynical about such things; he doesn't know what it means to be Human, but he knows what it means to have to act Human for situations like this, and it irritates him no end.

I got that, but A) Codina's natural temperament is to try to talk to people whether or not they want to talk back, and B) on a more practical note she feels like she might get more mileage by reminding 8 that as a human she isn't going to act rationally when faced with apparent impossibility. Sometimes being irrational is a good negotiating tactic: if you are unable to recognize that the other guy holds all the cards then he can't hold that over you to manipulate you.

Right now it appears that the only leverage whatsoever we have with this entity is the annoyance we are causing him, so it seems that our best bet is to make giving us what we want the most expedient way for him to be rid of us.

Presenting ourselves as rational beings negotiating to further our agenda, we have nothing to offer. Presenting ourselves as annoying children who are easier to appease than to dissuade, we might stand a chance.

[Totem]

Originally Posted by Ransom

It is a disadvantage, after all. Even if the multiverse weren't at stake she'd probably keep pestering this fellow until he either sat down for a chat or vaporized her.

No need for vaporising: he has ST 40 before he even tries to really push himself.

Originally Posted by Ransom

Presenting ourselves as rational beings negotiating to further our agenda, we have nothing to offer. Presenting ourselves as annoying children who are easier to appease than to dissuade, we might stand a chance.

As logic goes, that works, and for role-playing it comes out top as well. The catch in this case is that Codina's ability as a talker when it comes to mortals doesn't necessarily apply well when it comes to Fundamentals. Again, slipping into metagaming here, Eight's character sheet includes a note that the best reaction a mortal can get out of him (even with critical successes) is "grudging cooperation", which might simply provoke Codina to try and get a better reaction out of him. You also have an issue here of scale; annoying children come in at about 25% of adult points value (roughly: GURPS lists <25 points as children), while Eight has a +500% cosmic modifier on his entire sheet effectively, meaning that at best case your characters come in at the level of being swatted rather than appeased.

To illustrate this further: there was a game I was debating running at one point which was based around the old idea of a battle or Order and Chaos, with the players having powers based on one of those sources. But the players were Humans who had been empowered, and as such were working together to ensure that neither side won. Because, after all, what is the ultimate goal of Order? Human laws have nothing to do with Order, except as a starting point; the ultimate goal of Order would be to have the universe broken down into its constituent particles and energies and then to have all of those particles arranged into a perfectly stable grid pattern. In that state there is no place for Humans, or even for thought, to exist. That is the kind of scale that the Fundamentals operate on.

We're role-playing two characters who aren't going to get on well here, because by their basic temperaments one likes to talk and the other gets irritated by people talking. This is what role-playing is about. We're both winning, in that we're managing to stay in character; the characters getting on well isn't entirely a requirement of the genre.

[Ransom]

Is anyone around us talking, and if so, and if so, does the language sound familiar?

[Totem]

Originally Posted by Ransom

Is anyone around us talking, and if so, and if so, does the language sound familiar?

Language doesn't appear to be a problem; comprehension doesn't anyway, as everything that you can read and hear is intelligible to you despite not being in a language you recognise. How well this form of translation will work when dealing with language patterns and associated modifiers will remain to be seen. The receptionist is taking occasional calls, and periodically someone will walk through the lobby on their way somewhere else; when two people walk through chatting you don't have any trouble understanding the words, but they appear to be discussing something technical in terms of a process of some kind... There's a difference between understanding the words and knowing what they are talking about.

[Ransom]

Is it obvious what time of day it is?

[Totem]

Originally Posted by Ransom

Is it obvious what time of day it is?

There's no obvious signs beyond that it's working hours; you can't see anything outside and there are no obvious clocks or timepieces around in the lobby.

[Totem]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Michael switches to viewing Codina's thoughts, intending to monitor any changes that might occur by interacting with this effect.

Rolls for this to follow; tad busy at the present.

[Ransom]

Note that Codina still has Mind Block up, though she'd probably drop it if someone indicated to her that her ally was trying to listen in.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Ransom

Note that Codina still has Mind Block up, though she'd probably drop it if someone indicated to her that her ally was trying to listen in.

Yeah -- Michaels pretty bad about letting people know he's going to be listening in on their thoughts.