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Old 09-26-2022, 04:38 AM   #1
corwyn
 
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Default Wall tanking

So I ran a demo the other day and one of the players (who had played once) put heavy structure and two big lasers (for long range) on one side and then hugged the other side to a wall the entire duel. Quite effective, if boring, tactic. He only lost because all three opponents spent at least one attack on him every turn. All three final cars were down to 1-2 hp on the PP in the final turn. How would you counter this tactic?
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Old 09-26-2022, 11:34 AM   #2
philreed
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Default Re: Wall tanking

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
How would you counter this tactic?
Personally, I would team up with everyone else and wipe that player out. And then never invite them to another game. Life is too short to play with someone who isn't looking to have fun.
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Old 09-26-2022, 11:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Wall tanking

You could counter with the big, punchy weapons that could strip the structure away quickly (depending on the point values you are playing at). Once that is gone, so is the advantage of that tactic.

You could also try to get in close and outside of the single firing arc he has armed, staying behind or in front of him, and hitting his weaker front or rear.

If you are inclined to collisions, while you'd only do armor/structure damage on his tough side for the initial impact, if you keep pushing, the next collision will cause damage to his side that hits the wall, where he has sacrificed defense. But you'd have to be willing to take it twice yourself for this tactic.

Or if you can withstand being in his firing arc for a bit, you can force him into collisions with the walls or other obstacles by boxing him in and not giving him the space to maneuver.
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Old 09-26-2022, 11:49 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wall tanking

If it's a problem that comes up often, and you want to discourage the tactic in general, then you could do it with arena design.

Just state before the game that in your arenas, the crowd is armed. In the Combat phase, after every player has made their attacks, any car that is within 1 car length (or whatever you decide) of an arena wall is subject to a Hand Cannon attack from the crowd on the side of their car nearest to the arena wall. Starting with the first player and then going around the table.
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Old 09-26-2022, 05:32 PM   #5
Sam Mitschke
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Default Re: Wall tanking

Did he also armor up the front and back of his car, or just the side facing away from the wall?

I would have absolutely closed the distance to take away the primary benefit of his lasers. Most weapons of equivalent cost have a more-reliable damage output and a higher maximum damage potential than lasers.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:03 PM   #6
corwyn
 
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Default Re: Wall tanking

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Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
Did he also armor up the front and back of his car, or just the side facing away from the wall?

I would have absolutely closed the distance to take away the primary benefit of his lasers. Most weapons of equivalent cost have a more-reliable damage output and a higher maximum damage potential than lasers.
No structure on other sides. All 4 cars ended up in one corner of the arena at fairly short range.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wall tanking

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Personally, I would team up with everyone else and wipe that player out. And then never invite them to another game. Life is too short to play with someone who isn't looking to have fun.
Well, that seems a bit harsh, especially with a second time player, first time designer. I'll probably run some more games at that venue, so we'll see what he does. I mentioned that it was pretty cheesy, and he was ganged up a bit, so...
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Old 09-26-2022, 10:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wall tanking

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Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
Well, that seems a bit harsh, especially with a second time player, first time designer. I'll probably run some more games at that venue, so we'll see what he does. I mentioned that it was pretty cheesy, and he was ganged up a bit, so...
I'd also add that wall crawlers have been a common arena design for the entire time I've played Car Wars, going back to the 80s. If you were to kickban everyone who tries that design style you'd run out of players pretty quickly.

If possible, vary up your arena/duel setting choices so your players try different ideas. In-game, attacking their weaker sides and/or ganging up on the dangerous opponent are both reasonable responses to me.

Have fun!
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Old 09-27-2022, 07:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wall tanking

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Originally Posted by Parody View Post
I'd also add that wall crawlers have been a common arena design for the entire time I've played Car Wars, going back to the 80s. If you were to kickban everyone who tries that design style you'd run out of players pretty quickly.

If possible, vary up your arena/duel setting choices so your players try different ideas. In-game, attacking their weaker sides and/or ganging up on the dangerous opponent are both reasonable responses to me.

Have fun!
Agreed! At this point, Id hate to discourage any player. Ive seen the wall hugger tactic used many times with mixed results. As with any other tactic, somebody always comes up with a counter to even things out.
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Old 09-27-2022, 07:37 AM   #10
Sam Mitschke
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Default Re: Wall tanking

Wall-hugging is definitely an old idea, and perhaps due to its efficacy in older editions, many early 6e players believe that "draw the game out as long as possible" styles of play are the best (wall-hugging, piles of ace tokens, huge armor with few guns, etc). But those tactics perform exactly average over multiple plays when compared to more-exciting methods. Which is good! As long as the build sizes are equal, ANY tactic has a shot at winning...and there are counter-plays for everything.

To my knowledge, no one has yet identified one particular build or tactic that is reliably stronger, though the pile of ace tokens technique is a particular nuisance (and drags the game out).
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