Affect Self Only Limitation

[JCurwen3]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Affliction that are cheaper than there non-Affliction version do not tend to qualify for Beneficial as they are the ones that inflicted irating or incapacitating states.

To be fair, with sufficient limitations placed on the Affliction, you can make a pretty cheap temporary buffing ability. Of course, it can take some significant limitations, and even more serious limitations to "cover" the cost of Malediction and maybe Cosmic: No Die Roll Required if you want the beneficial affliction to always work, no resistance, no success roll; perhaps a whole hell of a lot of nigh-munchkinlike rules creativity to get the total modifier value approaching the cap of -80% for total modifiers.

Then you also have to wonder at that point if you couldn't have achieved similar effects with the original advantage as a base and appropriate limitations, still for cheaper.

And what you might be left with for all the effort would be something that, 9 times out of ten, might be as beneficial overall as a perk (depending on base advantage and level, and how often, with all those limitations, you can actually get the benefits when it counts).

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Nearly any ability can be an alternate ability. I think you mean alternate attack.

Yes, most any ability can be. However, the ability will shut down when you use another alternative ability that is part of the same set.

Here is an Example:

You want Immunity to Heat and Damage Resistance (Limited to Fire). You build them as alternative abilities. Now you can't use both at once. If you turned on Immunity to Heat then Damage Resistance (Limited to Fire), Immunity to Heat would shut down. Kind of crappy if you are jumping into an environment full of fire hazards.

Now if you build Afflictions that granted each of these abilities. You build them as alternative abilities. You use Affliction (Immunity to Heat) and grant the ability to yourself, then you use Affliction (Damage Resistance (Limited to Fire)) and grant this ability. Then you jump into an environment full of fire hazards. You have both abilities active and can renew them both periodically to maintain your protection. The point is the granted abilities don't shut each other down.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Azrael

Yes, most any ability can be. However, the ability will shut down when you use another alternative ability that is part of the same set.

Here is an Example:

You want Immunity to Heat/Fire and Damage Resistance (Limited to Heat/Fire). You build them as alternative abilities. Now you can't use both at once. If you turned on Immunity to Heat/Fire then Damage Resistance (Limited to Heat/Fire), Immunity to Heat/Fire would shut down. Kind of crappy if you are jumping into an environment full of fire hazards.

Now if you build Afflictions that granted each of these abilities. You build them as alternative abilities. You use Affliction (Immunity to Heat/Fire) and grant the ability to yourself, then you use Affliction (Damage Resistance ( Limited to Heat/Fire)) and grant this ability. Then you jump into an environment full of fire hazards. You have both abilities active and can renew them both periodically to maintain your protection. The point is the granted abilities don't shut each other down.

If you going to go that far down the buffing path and avoided getting spanked by your GM on grounds of being a munchkin you might as well keep going and make it even cheaper by copying Sakura Kinomoto and Build each ability as Gadgets that let Summon allies who have the provide the Buffs.

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

If you going to go that far down the buffing path and avoided getting spanked by your GM on grounds of being a munchkin you might as well keep going and make it even cheaper by copying Sakura Kinomoto and Build each ability as Gadgets that let Summon allies who have the provide the Buffs.

LOL. I am the GM. I thought it might be an interesting way to build a magic system for a setting I was working on. I figured it would be balanced within the setting if this was the primary system used to build abilities. In the end I decided to go with something different, but the concept was still interesting.

I do like the way Afflictions work as abilities. I like that fact that duration can depend on Margin of Success (With Maledictions, and Optional Affliction rules from powers). I like that the effect could also be tied to Margin of Success using Margin-Based from Creatures of the Night 1. The thing I didn't like was the higher cost of Afflictions, making it ridiculously expensive to base a magic system on it. So I sought out a way to lower the cost.

[Azrael]

Along the lines of the original topic, what would Affects Others Only cost? For a disadvantageous Affliction I would guess -0%. Disadvantageous Afflictions are generally used on others anyway. For a beneficial Affliction I might place it at -50%, same as Affects Self Only. Anyone else have an opinion?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Azrael

Yes, most any ability can be. However, the ability will shut down when you use another alternative ability that is part of the same set.

Here is an Example:

You want Immunity to Heat and Damage Resistance (Limited to Fire). You build them as alternative abilities. Now you can't use both at once. If you turned on Immunity to Heat then Damage Resistance (Limited to Fire), Immunity to Heat would shut down. Kind of crappy if you are jumping into an environment full of fire hazards.

Now if you build Afflictions that granted each of these abilities. You build them as alternative abilities. You use Affliction (Immunity to Heat) and grant the ability to yourself, then you use Affliction (Damage Resistance (Limited to Fire)) and grant this ability. Then you jump into an environment full of fire hazards. You have both abilities active and can renew them both periodically to maintain your protection. The point is the granted abilities don't shut each other down.

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to create a Perk that allows switched alternates to linger for 1d seconds or something.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to create a Perk that allows switched alternates to linger for 1d seconds or something.

Afflictions last for minutes, not seconds, and switching Alternate abilities requires a Ready action. Switching Alternative Attacks is a free action, and firing an affliction is an attack (Which you can have multiple of, and do a Move and attack, and other more flexible options).

[Azrael]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Wouldn't it be a lot simpler just to create a Perk that allows switched alternates to linger for 1d seconds or something.

An interesting idea for sure. I definitely wouldn't have thought of it. I don't know if it defeats the point of Alternate Abilities altogether though? Anyway, its not quite what I'm looking for. But thanks for the suggestion.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Afflictions last for minutes, not seconds, and switching Alternate abilities requires a Ready action. Switching Alternative Attacks is a free action, and firing an affliction is an attack (Which you can have multiple of, and do a Move and attack, and other more flexible options).

Sure, but the whole thing really strikes me as a munchkinly way to abuse Affliction. Besides with both an Innate Attack roll to hit yourself and a HT roll to not resist it's way way to many die rolls. I'd think I'd rather just come up with some other way to get the same effect even if it takes Cosmic or something.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Sure, but the whole thing really strikes me as a munchkinly way to abuse Affliction.

Oh heck, I wouldn't allow it in my games at all. Right with you on that one! But if people want to discuss possible munchkin cheesery, which apparently they do, it's always nice to take into account the many little details which you can't just handwave in order to make your cheesery work :)

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Besides with both an Innate Attack roll to hit yourself and a HT roll to not resist it's way way to many die rolls. I'd think I'd rather just come up with some other way to get the same effect even if it takes Cosmic or something.

The OP seems to have a plan involving Beneficial Affliction, Malediction, and Cosmic: No Roll Required. Which admittedly sounds like it's not going to be so cheap any more and I don't see how that Cosmic: No Roll Required is valid even with the Beneficial Malediction Affliction wonkyness.

I am on the record as thinking the way Malediction interacts with Affliction means it should cost twice as much when applied to Affliction, I personally think, but that's not RAW either.