Armour always on?

Aneirin · 08-08-2012, 05:18 PM

hello. I was just wondering how you would handle players who never take off their armour.

I imagine if they were the armour all the time it would increase the amount of upkeep and therefore the cost of upkeeping the armour quite a bit. Would there realistically be any penalties. Armour wasn't heavy, but I can't imagine it being comfortable to walk around for hours at a time and can imagine some extra fatigue points possibly due to heat exhaustion, and if someone decides to sleep in it, what about

Further problems may be penatlies to first aid whilst someone wears armour, and negative reaction modifiers for when wearing armour is simply not appropriate.

What other problems would wearing armour for long periods of time have, only taking it off when neccesary for upkeep and for first aid and to do neccesary toilet business (and we will assume they take it off for sleep as well) or am I overestimating how difficult it would be to wear armour the same way someone would wear normal clothes?

johndallman · 08-08-2012, 05:29 PM

What kind and TL of armour? That makes a difference. How realistic is the setting you are running for the players?

RyanW · 08-08-2012, 05:33 PM

Ants.

Get in a bed of biting ants, and you will not be able to take the armor off quickly enough.

Phantasm · 08-08-2012, 05:41 PM

Could have taverns that have a "Check Your Weapons And Armor At The Door" policy, with armed bouncers enforcing it, and refuse them entry.

Also, some towns/cities - particularly the larger ones - could have laws restricting the open wearing of armor and swords/shields/muskets to highly specific people: knights of the realm, and then only in the jousting arena; city guardsmen; nobles of rank Baron or higher; etc. Failure to remove your armor and stow it at the gate will result in being refused entrance, and anyone caught wearing it without a good reason facing jail time or expulsion from the town/city.

Also, yes, it is nearly impossible to sleep in armor. If they sleep in their armor, they should wake without their FP restored, or if they had full FP when sleeping (for whatever reason), they should wake with half their FP. Enforce the penalties to move (and encumbrance, as some armor will drop a character to Medium or even Heavy encumbrance when worn!) when fatigued.

Armor wasn't heavy, but it wasn't light, either! Even modern armor (a Kevlar vest or full SWAT gear) can drop a person to light encumbrance when worn, coupled with anything else a person could carry.

Ulzgoroth · 08-08-2012, 06:06 PM

I think some of our experts have said that it is indeed quite possible to sleep in armor. I believe it...sleep doesn't need nearly as much comfort as some believe. At least, not for everyone.

Armor is heavy (for clothing) and hot. Prolonged physical activity while wearing it invites both simple and heat exhaustion.

Reaction penalties for wearing armor in inappropriate contexts are entirely reasonable.

If you don't go about 'necessary maintenance' with a thorough and aggressive attitude, you'll probably also reek from sweating into your undergarments and neither airing them nor changing them nearly often enough. If you keep at it, you may damage the armor proper with corrosion and possibly develop sores and infections from the combination of constant pressures from the armor and the moist and dirty interior. But good, regular hygine and well-fitted armor probably would take care of that for the most part.

It's also probably just not comfortable. But PCs generally are allowed to take on as much of that as the player wants. Real people may get themselves killed because they just don't like the feel of some piece of protective equipment (bicycle helmets? Seatbelts?) but the baseline GURPS character is at liberty to be meticulous and shrug off such minor irritations.

DanHoward · 08-08-2012, 06:08 PM

In Instant Armor (p. 20) it was decided to make lighter armour ok to sleep in. If it has a Holdout modifier of -3 or worse then you have fatigue problems when trying to sleep. I am thinking that the Deep Sleeper perk could negate this.

There would be negative reactions whenever they enter a town. How would people react today if you walked into a restaurant wearing a ballistic vest and helmet?

If you were involved in a fight and were wearing armour then many courts would automatically assume that your actions were premeditated.

Crakkerjakk · 08-08-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Also, yes, it is nearly impossible to sleep in armor. If they sleep in their armor, they should wake without their FP restored, or if they had full FP when sleeping (for whatever reason), they should wake with half their FP.

The hell it is. This is mostly a D&D-ism. It may be true for a few types of armor (maaaaaybe plate), but for the vast majority of "heavy thick clothes made out of things that are kind of hard" it's something you can do pretty easily.

DanHoward · 08-08-2012, 06:24 PM

Sakakibara Kozan wrote about the problems with Japanese armor while on extended campaigns.

"When soaked with water the armor becomes very heavy and cannot be quickly dried; so that in summer it is oppressive and in winter liable to freeze. Moreover, no amount of washing will completely free the lacing from any mud or blood which may have penetrated it, and on long and distant campaigns it becomes evil-smelling and overrun by ants and lice, with consequent ill effects on the health of the wearer."

DanHoward · 08-08-2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

The hell it is. This is mostly a D&D-ism. It may be true for a few types of armor (maaaaaybe plate), but for the vast majority of "heavy thick clothes made out of things that are kind of hard" it's something you can do pretty easily.

I can't sleep in heavy armour unless I am very tired and I don't feel as well rested when I wake up (more so now than when I was younger). A good compromise might be to let people with the Deep Sleeper perk sleep in armour. I'm guessing that a lot of experienced soldiers would have this.

Sunrunners_Fire · 08-08-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

Also, yes, it is nearly impossible to sleep in armor. If they sleep in their armor, they should wake without their FP restored, or if they had full FP when sleeping (for whatever reason), they should wake with half their FP. Enforce the penalties to move (and encumbrance, as some armor will drop a character to Medium or even Heavy encumbrance when worn!) when fatigued.

Armor wasn't heavy, but it wasn't light, either! Even modern armor (a Kevlar vest or full SWAT gear) can drop a person to light encumbrance when worn, coupled with anything else a person could carry.

Erm ... I have slept in (made by a friend) handmade chain mail before. I have slept in (borrowed) partial plate (the torso and the forearms). Didn't bother me in the slightest for the week that I did it. I suspect that your position as to what armor does is kinda off from reality, just based on personal experiences. And it's not like I'm a big guy or anything! (5'9", about 160 lbs at the time.)

08-08-2012, 05:18 PM	#1
Aneirin Join Date: May 2012	Armour always on? hello. I was just wondering how you would handle players who never take off their armour. I imagine if they were the armour all the time it would increase the amount of upkeep and therefore the cost of upkeeping the armour quite a bit. Would there realistically be any penalties. Armour wasn't heavy, but I can't imagine it being comfortable to walk around for hours at a time and can imagine some extra fatigue points possibly due to heat exhaustion, and if someone decides to sleep in it, what about Further problems may be penatlies to first aid whilst someone wears armour, and negative reaction modifiers for when wearing armour is simply not appropriate. What other problems would wearing armour for long periods of time have, only taking it off when neccesary for upkeep and for first aid and to do neccesary toilet business (and we will assume they take it off for sleep as well) or am I overestimating how difficult it would be to wear armour the same way someone would wear normal clothes?

08-08-2012, 05:29 PM	#2
johndallman Night Watchman Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cambridge, UK	Re: Armour always on? What kind and TL of armour? That makes a difference. How realistic is the setting you are running for the players?

08-08-2012, 05:33 PM	#3
RyanW ☣ Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southeast NC	Re: Armour always on? Ants. Get in a bed of biting ants, and you will not be able to take the armor off quickly enough. __________________ RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats.

08-08-2012, 05:41 PM	#4
Phantasm Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: On the road again...	Re: Armour always on? Could have taverns that have a "Check Your Weapons And Armor At The Door" policy, with armed bouncers enforcing it, and refuse them entry. Also, some towns/cities - particularly the larger ones - could have laws restricting the open wearing of armor and swords/shields/muskets to highly specific people: knights of the realm, and then only in the jousting arena; city guardsmen; nobles of rank Baron or higher; etc. Failure to remove your armor and stow it at the gate will result in being refused entrance, and anyone caught wearing it without a good reason facing jail time or expulsion from the town/city. Also, yes, it is nearly impossible to sleep in armor. If they sleep in their armor, they should wake without their FP restored, or if they had full FP when sleeping (for whatever reason), they should wake with half their FP. Enforce the penalties to move (and encumbrance, as some armor will drop a character to Medium or even Heavy encumbrance when worn!) when fatigued. Armor wasn't heavy, but it wasn't light, either! Even modern armor (a Kevlar vest or full SWAT gear) can drop a person to light encumbrance when worn, coupled with anything else a person could carry. __________________ "Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991 "But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!" The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation. Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting

08-08-2012, 06:06 PM	#5
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Armour always on? I think some of our experts have said that it is indeed quite possible to sleep in armor. I believe it...sleep doesn't need nearly as much comfort as some believe. At least, not for everyone. Armor is heavy (for clothing) and hot. Prolonged physical activity while wearing it invites both simple and heat exhaustion. Reaction penalties for wearing armor in inappropriate contexts are entirely reasonable. If you don't go about 'necessary maintenance' with a thorough and aggressive attitude, you'll probably also reek from sweating into your undergarments and neither airing them nor changing them nearly often enough. If you keep at it, you may damage the armor proper with corrosion and possibly develop sores and infections from the combination of constant pressures from the armor and the moist and dirty interior. But good, regular hygine and well-fitted armor probably would take care of that for the most part. It's also probably just not comfortable. But PCs generally are allowed to take on as much of that as the player wants. Real people may get themselves killed because they just don't like the feel of some piece of protective equipment (bicycle helmets? Seatbelts?) but the baseline GURPS character is at liberty to be meticulous and shrug off such minor irritations. __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

08-08-2012, 06:08 PM	#6
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Armour always on? In Instant Armor (p. 20) it was decided to make lighter armour ok to sleep in. If it has a Holdout modifier of -3 or worse then you have fatigue problems when trying to sleep. I am thinking that the Deep Sleeper perk could negate this. There would be negative reactions whenever they enter a town. How would people react today if you walked into a restaurant wearing a ballistic vest and helmet? If you were involved in a fight and were wearing armour then many courts would automatically assume that your actions were premeditated. Last edited by DanHoward; 08-08-2012 at 06:18 PM.

08-08-2012, 06:24 PM	#8
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Armour always on? Sakakibara Kozan wrote about the problems with Japanese armor while on extended campaigns. "When soaked with water the armor becomes very heavy and cannot be quickly dried; so that in summer it is oppressive and in winter liable to freeze. Moreover, no amount of washing will completely free the lacing from any mud or blood which may have penetrated it, and on long and distant campaigns it becomes evil-smelling and overrun by ants and lice, with consequent ill effects on the health of the wearer."